Oregon As expected, SOS says walkout Rs cannot run again for office, per Measure 113

[rhollister71]

It's the only weapon they have left to block unconstitutional laws by denying quorum. Otherwise democrats will pass any law they please with their supermajority. At that point Republicans are just token stooges in the assembly.

YUP THATS WHY THEY(DEMS) HAD 113 ON BALLOT TAKE AWAY ANY CHANCE OF DISAGREEING. WE ARE NOW IN A DICTATORSHIP IN OREGON.

 

[jayR]

113 will not stand. When Wagner called the Senate into session deliberately disregarding well established religious observance on Sundays. Is nothing more than punitive and unconstitutional. Clearly, too much power has been delegated to a partisan Senate President.

 

[Croat]

Measure 113 was an amendment to the Oregon constitution. It established a new qualifying criterion for a person's eligibility to run for public office based on past behavior. Past behavior, mind you, not a past criminal conviction through the justice system. I am rather interested to see whether it will successfully withstand a court challenge. If past behavior succeeds as a qualifying criterion for public office, then the sky's the limit. Ever attend a protest? That behavior could be used as a reason to ban you from public office. Ever call someone by their wrong pronoun? That behavior could be used as a reason to ban you from public office. The list goes on. Just because the idiots in Oregon voted for Measure 113 doesn't mean it is legal. Personally, I believe a behavioral qualification for public office is a violation of the First Amendment, but we'll see where this goes...

 

[CLT65]

Just to clarify things on this thread, there are some on this forum who do NOT want you all talking about this kind of thing, not necessarily because "What does this thread have to do with firearms?", but rather because they are (like our esteemed colleague Cole here) hard-left individuals who would never vote for anyone resembling a conservative under any circumstances.

No judgement, to each their own and all that. We each believe what we choose to believe, and chosen beliefs are nearly impossible to change no matter the logic and evidence, so I don't see much value in squabbling or berating others over their views. That said, just bear in mind that some folks on this forum, even though they like and own guns, would literally dance in the streets to see any and all right-leaning members of the Oregon legislature barred from reelection. They rarely contribute much to the conversation other than deflection, because to them, other issues are more important than gun rights.

 

[Koda]

Just to clarify things on this thread, there are some on this forum who do NOT want you all talking about this kind of thing, not necessarily because "What does this thread have to do with firearms?", but rather because they are (like our esteemed colleague Cole here) hard-left individuals who would never vote for anyone resembling a conservative under any circumstances.

No judgement, to each their own and all that. We each believe what we choose to believe, and chosen beliefs are nearly impossible to change no matter the logic and evidence, so I don't see much value in squabbling or berating others over their views. That said, just bear in mind that some folks on this forum, even though they like and own guns, would literally dance in the streets to see any and all right-leaning members of the Oregon legislature barred from reelection. They rarely contribute much to the conversation other than deflection, because to them, other issues are more important than gun rights.

If other issues are more important than their own constitutional rights then they made a conscious decision to accept losing their rights, the very guns they like and own and should be fine with that loss when it happens. If thats the case then they shouldn't interfere with the political pro gun discussions, this is a pro gun forum.

 

[Diamondback]

What @Koda said. If you don't like us bashing Progs, get into your County Party and replace your current PDX/SEA Machine Leghumpers who may bark big but tuk tail on command when it counts with a new breed of dog that's not afraid to bite those Urban Elitist Trash good and hard.

You know, like Betsy Johnson USED to be...

 

[CLT65]

If other issues are more important than their own constitutional rights then they made a conscious decision to accept losing their rights, the very guns they like and own and should be fine with that loss when it happens. If thats the case then they shouldn't interfere with the political pro gun discussions, this is a pro gun forum.

Don't get me wrong; I'm firmly on your side. I'm just pointing out that some folks on here, including active on this thread, are hard-core progressives. Just bear that in mind when you read their posts.

I try my very best to avoid contentious politics in general; I have way too much stress in my life to be arguing with an idealogue who will absolutely, positively never change their mind. Just move along and talk reason with someone more open-minded.

 

[Koda]

Don't get me wrong; I'm firmly on your side. I'm just pointing out that some folks on here, including active on this thread, are hard-core progressives. Just bear that in mind when you read their posts.

I try my very best to avoid contentious politics in general; I have way too much stress in my life to be arguing with an idealogue who will absolutely, positively never change their mind. Just move along and talk reason with someone more open-minded.

Yeah, Im guilty of engaging intellectual discussion especially when it challenges my opinion. But yeah theres also a fine line dissenters cross over and it becomes pointless and disrupts the discussion... best to ignore those.

 

[CLT65]

Yeah, Im guilty of engaging intellectual discussion especially when it challenges my opinion. But yeah theres also a fine line dissenters cross over and it becomes pointless and disrupts the discussion... best to ignore those.

I used to do that all the time too. I'm getting better over the years.

I'm not as ready for a fight nowadays, and don't care nearly so much what someone else thinks anymore. That's not to say that I don't care or that we shouldn't be politically active or try to change minds; I just came to the personal conclusion over the years that so much of the political bickering that I engaged in was unproductive and stress-inducing.

I still slip once in a while and get worked up, but for the most part am no longer bothered by what others think. The human mind has this amazing ability to believe absolutely anything we want to believe. We can intellectually justify anything we want to. There are incredibly intelligent, educated people in this world who believe some pretty absurd stuff. This realization makes me question my own views from time to time.

 

[Koda]

I used to do that all the time too. I'm getting better over the years.

I'm not as ready for a fight nowadays, and don't care nearly so much what someone else thinks anymore. That's not to say that I don't care or that we shouldn't be politically active or try to change minds; I just came to the personal conclusion over the years that so much of the political bickering that I engaged in was unproductive and stress-inducing.

I still slip once in a while and get worked up, but for the most part am no longer bothered by what others think. The human mind has this amazing ability to believe absolutely anything we want to believe. We can intellectually justify anything we want to. There are incredibly intelligent, educated people in this world who believe some pretty absurd stuff. This realization makes me question my own views from time to time.

Its important to regularly question our own views, being stuck in an echo chamber is toxic. I like to challenge my opinon to make sure its the right one (one of the reasons Ive become more pro gun). I dont mind discussions, its when it turns to debate is when I might back off.... political debate is rarely productive I agree. I dont get worked up, but I have learned more and more how the anti gunners manipulate the discussion and at that point no sense in continuing.

 

[Yarome]

The human mind has this amazing ability to believe absolutely anything we want to believe. We can intellectually justify anything we want to. There are incredibly intelligent, educated people in this world who believe some pretty absurd stuff. This realization makes me question my own views from time to time.

I believe that is called "self delusion" and agree that's it's rampant among certain belief systems, but disagree that it's a "normal" trait within the human condition.

Wants and desires can have a powerful influence, but everyone is capable of critical reasoning. "Typical" is the ability to accept realities despite our fanciful desires. The "atypical mind" abandons all reason to delude oneself into ignoring reality/truth. I think narcissism and pride are traits that play a big role in self delusion as well.

It's good to always seek new information and constantly challenge your belief systems. It's the only way to grow as a person. It also never does anyone any harm to admit to themselves or others when they were wrong, IMHO. Although many of weak character seem to believe life as they know it will end if they do.

 

[Mono1]

Its important to regularly question our own views, being stuck in an echo chamber is toxic. I like to challenge my opinon to make sure its the right one (one of the reasons Ive become more pro gun). I dont mind discussions, its when it turns to debate is when I might back off.... political debate is rarely productive I agree. I dont get worked up, but I have learned more and more how the anti gunners manipulate the discussion and at that point no sense in continuing.

Appreciate the fact that you guys seem to be making an attempt to be "Open Minded" but after a lifetime on this planet if you haven't figured out what you stand for principle-wise then I don't know what to say.

I guess some of us are still learning.

But as for me. It is what it is. And It Ain't Changin'.

 

[Koda]

Appreciate the fact that you guys seem to be making an attempt to be "Open Minded" but after a lifetime on this planet if you haven't figured out what you stand for principle-wise then I don't know what to say.

I guess some of us are still learning.

But as for me. It is what it is. And It Ain't Changin'.

As long as we understand the difference between whats true and what we want to be true. Its ok to stand firm behind a principle as long as its not based on what you want to be true. Open minded doesnt mean fluid or indecisive, it does mean one is willing to consider other ideas and reject parts one wants to be true. I will listen and consider any anti gunner to prove disarming lawful citizens is better for a free society, they cant... The philosophy of having the means to defend yourself is rooted in nature.

 

[Croat]

We're getting pretty far afield with these comments about self-delusion, open mindedness, critical reasoning, toxic echo chambers, etc. But I like it. Frankly, I'm glad to see some genuine thinking brought to this forum and appreciate these perspectives being shared. This kind of reminds me of the ancient Greek emphasis on psychagogy. For them psychagogy centered on the concept of bringing forth knowledge and "betterment of the soul" through informed discourse. They felt that each individual was ultimately responsible for the quality of his/her own soul, but informed discourse could help us achieve a more "truthful" relationship with our soul as expressed through our behaviors, beliefs, and emotions. This discussion appears to be running parallel to their psychagogy ideas, and that kind of feels like a good thing.

 

[CLT65]

You don't have to compromise your principles when you challenge your own beliefs by trying to understand the other side. If your principles are strong you'll be better able to articulate your own views afterwards.

I don't think my principles have changed over the years, but my perspective has mellowed. It seems that most people don't even understand principles nowadays.

 

[CLT65]

I believe that is called "self delusion" and agree that's it's rampant among certain belief systems, but disagree that it's a "normal" trait within the human condition.

Wants and desires can have a powerful influence, but everyone is capable of critical reasoning. "Typical" is the ability to accept realities despite our fanciful desires. The "atypical mind" abandons all reason to delude oneself into ignoring reality/truth. I think narcissism and pride are traits that play a big role in self delusion as well.

It's good to always seek new information and constantly challenge your belief systems. It's the only way to grow as a person. It also never does anyone any harm to admit to themselves or others when they were wrong, IMHO. Although many of weak character seem to believe life as they know it will end if they do.

I don't know how normal it is, but I do think that we're all capable of it to some degree, and do it unknowingly in at least small ways, though maybe not full blown self delusion. The adaptability of the human mind is amazing. I'd sure like to think that we're all capable of dispassionate critical thinking, but it sure seems that a lot of people don't practice it very often.

More commonly though, people believe things based on trust- the voices they listen to and the sources they choose to trust. If you listen to and trust CNN, you'll see things one way. If you trust Fox, then you'll see it differently. If objective reality butts in to challenge your views, you might trust "your guy" more than your lyin' eyes.

I don't claim to know much about anything or be any kind of expert, but I do find it interesting to ponder these things.

 

[Mono1]

Seems to me there are Way More Thoughtful people here (see above Posts) than there are on the Left.

Just an Observation.

 

[nwslopoke]

Just to clarify things on this thread, there are some on this forum who do NOT want you all talking about this kind of thing, not necessarily because "What does this thread have to do with firearms?", but rather because they are (like our esteemed colleague Cole here) hard-left individuals who would never vote for anyone resembling a conservative under any circumstances.

No judgement, to each their own and all that. We each believe what we choose to believe, and chosen beliefs are nearly impossible to change no matter the logic and evidence, so I don't see much value in squabbling or berating others over their views. That said, just bear in mind that some folks on this forum, even though they like and own guns, would literally dance in the streets to see any and all right-leaning members of the Oregon legislature barred from reelection. They rarely contribute much to the conversation other than deflection, because to them, other issues are more important than gun rights.

The topic is not pure politics. It directly affects the ability to protect the rights of firearms ownership as we choose and not as dictated to by the state. That is the battle.

Firearms and self defense hadn't been a far right issue until it became a talking point. Now it has negative connotations because in media anything conservative is deemed bad. Well, I have another Lefty convert coming to shoot for the first time very soon.

The proof as they say, is in the pudding. Talk to me all day but you can't fool the eyes. Another lefty realizes she is on her own where she lives. She's been vandalized, threatened, ect and the local authorities haven't made good citizens #1 priority for safety. Another reason why defending gun rights are so important. As things deteriorate and more people wake up, the democrats with their super majority don't want to defend their position. They just want to dictate.

 

[Mikej]

No offense but I think that's kinda like giving up.

No offence taken.
I live in the heart of NE potland. Without living in this exact KIND of place, you can't really know. No offense intended. And actually? I would admire someone who keeps fighting for what's right under these circumstances.

I am so jaded at this point, I will give nothing for someone who votes "D". Those people hate our country, and our Forefathers that died to make this country, WARTS and all, what it was.

 

[41mag]

As The Bard almost said....'some strive to be proggies, some are born to be proggies, and some have Proggieismo thrust upon em'...