Are cities no go zones for you?

[ATCclears]

I think I told this story before on NW Firearms...

My sister's significant other passes in January, 2018. I go up to the funeral in BC, and drive two family members back to the Vancouver, BC area. A 4+ hour drive so plenty of time to chat. It turns out one works at a large homeless shelter in downtown Vancouver, BC. He is being honest about things so I eventually ask the hard question: how many make it back to the other side?

10-15%.

Those with mental illness fight that battle forever.

Those with addiction(s) sometimes get past it all, but few do. His organization provides life-skill counseling, helps people get setup with apartments and jobs, and more. He's seen the organization invest two years into more than one person (e.g. apartment, working) and the person will toss it all away in a weekend and go back to the addiction monster.

This is the hard reality of what we/society are facing out there.

So do you invest limited tax dollars into the homeless, young kids and schools and lunch programs, other?

I offer no solutions, other than to work hard to keep my family out of these types of situations.

 

[MichaelH]

Yea. It's just hard for me to understand. When there are so many opportunities/work and so many programs to help you if you are in that situation. The tricky part is you have to have the want/desire to better yourself and your situation. That's why when I see people on the corner holding veteran signs/etc. it's very hard for me to have sympathy when there are so many options out there. But the individual has to want it and do the work. It will never work if it is forced and given with no effort on their end.

I'll bite...I'm a willing target.
I wouldn't hire someone who's experiencing homelessness, at least without some sort of stable address in a shelter program or something to do anything that I'd pay someone to do. Not to deal with customers, to deal with product, provide labor on my or a customer's property or any task that requires them to show up reliably. Unless they have a stable and secure place to sleep, somewhere to bathe and clean clothes they can't be employees.

Would you hire them? Would you want our tax dollars paying them to provide any decent paying public service? That's why they stay homeless without help.

 

[BigDog67]

I had a street project last summer in Yakima, where there is a large homeless population. I worked around them for 4 months. Some of them had some bad breaks and I got along with them just fine. But many had made bad decisions, drugs mostly, and they were a total waste of time and space. I had to close some of the areas where they set up to beg, and they thought they could just move my cones and let traffic through so they could continue to "solicit" funds. When I finally threatened to bury them in the trench they left. I have no time or use for that type.

 

[wired]

I had a street project last summer in Yakima, where there is a large homeless population. I worked around them for 4 months. Some of them had some bad breaks and I got along with them just fine. But many had made bad decisions, drugs mostly, and they were a total waste of time and space. I had to close some of the areas where they set up to beg, and they thought they could just move my cones and let traffic through so they could continue to "solicit" funds. When I finally threatened to bury them in the trench they left. I have no time or use for that type.

I lived in Yakima for years. We just drove around that block. Yakima has a bad rep but its nothing compared to Portland or Seattle or especially Tacoma.

 

[41mag]

My own nephew, educated, solid skills as high end motorcycle mechanic, honorable service discharge--no combat deployment, solid middle class background, withdrew a step at a time. Dumped family, friends, good wife. We all reached out to no avail. I had phone call from him asking for money ,for a
bus ticket, we offered support, job, money sent for the bus etc. He finally said life on the streets was a lot easier & better pay. A few months later his mom ran across a bay area news story identifying a found body as his.
50+ years ago I was a front line social worker under the illusion such problems could be solved by applying a balm of other people's sweat & money.

 

[Murphy]

Fortunate enough to own. Home + a rental.

I hope your property values don't tank.

 

[Member 53328]

I'll bite...I'm a willing target.
I wouldn't hire someone who's experiencing homelessness, at least without some sort of stable address in a shelter program or something to do anything that I'd pay someone to do. Not to deal with customers, to deal with product, provide labor on my or a customer's property or any task that requires them to show up reliably. Unless they have a stable and secure place to sleep, somewhere to bathe and clean clothes they can't be employees.

Would you hire them? Would you want our tax dollars paying them to provide any decent paying public service? That's why they stay homeless without help.

So they are homeless and without help because people like you refuse to help them? I understand what you're saying. And like others have said there isn't a pill that will solve this problem. But if someone came to me looking for work and actually showed some drive and initiative to better his/her life I will be damned if I don't try and help them. Whether that is finding a job, a shelter, rehab, etc. If they wanted work and not a hand out than I would lend a hand. But I won't throw money and time at a problem that doesn't want to be fixed.

 

[MichaelH]

I hope your property values don't tank.

They probably won't, but for everyone else's sake I do hope they stop appreciating at the current stupid rates. As long as the Bay Area, LA and Seattle cost 25 to 30% more, Portland's a pretty safe real estate bet. Even during the 2008 to 2011 foreclosure crisis we didn't lose value, we only stopped appreciating for a couple years.

 

[GWS]

Cities aren't a total no go for me. There are great gun shops and restaurants in Portland and when they open up more, I will return to them.
I love Fogo, Clyde's, Salty's and Cartlandia among others. As for the gun shops, I'm not going but that's more because nobody has anything so why waste the time and gas? But when shelves refill, I'll mosey on back to them as well. Until then, the Couve gets all my fun and gun business.

eta I forgot to add Powell's. Great military history section.

 

[Xaevian]

Tell me about it. I have to work in the 2nd largest city in Montana, and one of the most liberal. Packed with about 77,000 people.

But I won't live there.

 

[MichaelH]

I'm actually more concerned with those people who attempt to justify these situations and behaviors as "the cost of doing business". Their attempt to normalize this is telling as to ones agenda. I find it harder and harder to consider them Americans.

Bad use of language: "the cost of doing business". A better way to say it is, for me, the benefits of living and shopping in a city is worth whatever risks come with being in the city.

I'm not sure what "agenda" you assume I'm for, or how that makes me any less American than you though. That's pretty offensive.

 

[jrd541280]

And there in lies the "homeless problem". Just like feral cats, you feed one and you get 25. Cut them off from EVERYTHING and they go away

 

[Sandaholic]

Bad use of language: "the cost of doing business". A better way to say it is, for me, the benefits of living and shopping in a city is worth whatever risks come with being in the city.

I'm not sure what "agenda" you assume I'm for, or how that makes me any less American than you though. That's pretty offensive.

I'm offended that you are offended

 

[GWS]

And there in lies the "homeless problem". Just like feral cats, you feed one and you get 25. Cut them off from EVERYTHING and they go away.

Bingo!

 

[Provincial]

I'm offended that you are offended

Never wrestle with a pig. You end up tired and covered with mud and the pig enjoys it!

 

[RoseCityWreckr]

I love most cities, especially more compact cities where there are residential neighborhoods interspersed with business districts. Growing up I lived in rural SW Virginia and then Pittsburgh. Comparatively I loved growing up in Pittsburgh: I grew up in that neighborhood where that bubblegum shot up the Tree of Life a few years ago. I was jumped several times growing up in Pittsburgh because my folks are "front-line gentrifiers". I've lived in San Francisco, Oakland and Portland and spent a pile of time urban Southern CA. Oakland was really the only city that I ever felt like I had to be careful and watch out for my personal safety, and there I might have even carried on the daily if I was into firearms when I lived there (but for the most part violent crime there is criminals perpetrating crimes on criminals). I've lived in Portland twice, once from 1997 to 2001 then 2006 to the present, and it has always been wildly safe for the size of city it is (my wife made me move back or I'd probably still be spending too much money to live in the Bay Area...it's like living with a weird dysfunctional really intense family). For the first ten years I lived in Portland I didn't lock my back door because my pretty friendly pitbull tended to disuade anyone who wasn't supposed to be in my back yard from entering. Of course there is crime, but it tends to be pain-in-the-bubblegum no one gets hurt crime, like porch pirates, graffiti on your garbage can or the neighbor's catalytic converter getting ripped off. For me that's just the cost of living somewhere that everything I need, except for immediate access to the woods or beach, can be reached on foot or less than a five minute drive. Maybe I'm not afraid because I'm 6'5" and weigh 250, but crime stats show that but Portland is pretty damn safe as far as violent crimes against people.

There are definitely parts of some cities that I would avoid walking down the street. There are parts of all the cities I've lived--except Portland--where I would look like a space alien walking down the street and that would make it more likely for me to be a target of crime, but those areas tend to be pretty obvious, pretty easy to avoid and there usually isn't anything located there that would cause me to have to be there.

Honestly I really don't want to LIVE anywhere that I have to drive more than a couple of minutes to go get a decent cup of coffee, good tacos, schwarma, thai food, real pizza or buy a half gallon of milk or a bottle of decent wine for my wife. I have spent plenty of time in rural areas, love to recreate in the woods, lived near a small town on a small island in the middle of the Pacific, lived in rural coastal CA and enjoy access to mountains and desert, but I still like cities more. If I were to rank possible American living experiences in order of my preference it'd be big cities (more than 330K population), small towns, rural areas, small cities and suburbs last. I see the draw of suburbs, especially for folks who have kids (I do too) and if I had to live in one because of work I could learn to be happy, but nothing ever draws me to them.

There are lots of homeless people here, in Portland. You're welcome: there are plenty of them from your rural towns where there are no social services. It sucks for the residents who aren't homeless, the businesses, and the city folks who have to deal with them, but it's important to remember that it also sucks way more for the homeless to be where they are.

I for one am not okay with my packages being stolen or my neighbor's catalytic converter. These pain in butt crimes unchecked turn into more serious crimes. It's not as bad as (insert a worse place here) doesn't mean it's good. And, it'll be one of cities people are using as a comparison with time. Also, I'm going to guess you haven't spent much time in any of these homeless camps. I have and I can tell you it sucks way more for the people that live around them. I've had fairly lengthy conversations with dozens of people in these camps that are in or near residential areas and have met only one person that wasn't right where he wanted to be. In the first few minutes the majority of them will sound like they've fallen on hard times but offer up some solutions that require effort, mostly getting clean, and you'll see. Now the people who have to walk by this filth (literal, not an insult towards the people causing it) to get to and from work. The kids that have to see it. The taxpayers that get to add it to the list of things to pay for. Etc, etc. We are having to deal with alchohol, drug, and crime problems without being alcoholics, druggies, or criminals. I can type for hours on all the stuff I've had to deal with on account of these people that have it so much worse than me. I don't feel sorry for any of them. Every successful person I know has lived through at least one their sob stories. Some of the people I know are now living in tents. What made the difference was the choices they made. It's not impossible to get out of that life it's just harder than if you don't put yourself there to begin with. There is an employee of the state that stops by once a month to see if I've heard from one the homeless people I know (that's already bubblegumed off a free apartment and monthly check) to see if he's ready for treatment. Guess who's paying him to drive around in a car paid for by the same people to "help" this poor soul? Eventually we're going to run out of places with just the right amount of lawlessness to move to.

 

[revjen45]

1) "Pretending this is normal IS part of the problem."
Making it normal is the problem.

2) "I thought it was located just under the bladder and in front of the rectum?"
That's called the now. (As in I wonder who's kissing her now?)

3) "I don't think I'm afraid of going anywhere here in Washington or Oregon, and I've been all over these states."
Me too neither. Ref. Psalm 1911.

4) Response to Post #82: EMS are truly heroes. They brought me back from complete cardio/pulmonary arrest, so I have particularly high esteem for them.

5) "Maybe I'm not afraid because I'm 6'5" and weigh 250, but crime stats show that but Portland is pretty damn safe as far as violent crimes against people."
Yeah, being 6'5" could have something to do with it.
I think crime stats also show that Victim Selection 101 teaches that the physically less imposing are good targets. I know I look like a 3-legged wildebeest looks to a pride of lions.

6) "So why do we promote basic-income programs for younger, healthy people?"
a. Who is this we you speak of?
b) Because they vote for a living and they vote for the people who dispense such largesse.

 

[Mikej]

2) "I thought it was located just under the bladder and in front of the rectum?"
That's called the now. (As in I wonder who's kissing her now?)

Coffee on the key board dammit!

 

[Mikej]

So they are homeless and without help because people like you refuse to help them? I understand what you're saying. And like others have said there isn't a pill that will solve this problem. But if someone came to me looking for work and actually showed some drive and initiative to better his/her life I will be damned if I don't try and help them. Whether that is finding a job, a shelter, rehab, etc. If they wanted work and not a hand out than I would lend a hand. But I won't throw money and time at a problem that doesn't want to be fixed.

Regarding hiring the homeless/street people....
So called "Leaders" need to come up with a plan, other than just throwing money at the homeless population. Perhaps some kind of plan to make it easier for business owners to hire the homeless. Not having an address is a problem to be solved for the business owner. Possibly paying less than minimum wage for a period of time until the employee acclimates to a work schedule, and starts to produce appropriately. Waving/adjusting some of the labor rules to allow businesses to more easily employ people that are on the street. And easier to let them go. Some way for someone on the street to clean themselves.

There have to be people in the homeless population that would appreciate being able to have a job. There just needs to be a way to sort through to find those men/women that want to work.

Wifey has a man that works for her/the company, who is homeless. One of the best damn employees they've ever had. He's a little rough looking, but is happy as hell, friendly, smiling and takes on any and all jobs assigned to him, no matter how low or disgusting they are. He lives in a van. He had a buddy that was also homeless, but worked also. They managed some help from section 8 (I presume) and got them a place together. Turned out "Bob" couldn't hack having a room mate. He's totally happy living in his van. My point is, so called "leaders" need to come up with something. No one is ever going to get off the street, and get any sense of self worth, without doing something for themselves that will go toward getting them some sense of self worth.

Wifey deals with employees now that can't seem to work a whole week of their scheduled shifts! These are young people, late teens to 40s, that drop shift for the craziest stuff!

 

[pogi]

50+ years ago I was a front line social worker under the illusion such problems could be solved by applying a balm of other people's sweat & money.

Interesting you said that. I frequently say that nothing can be solved without outcome markers and usually get called 'heartless'. More money isn't going to fix the problem but not having any expectations whatsoever definitely is ensuring nothing will change.