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After EMP: Getting around?

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by gunluvver, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. gunluvver

    gunluvver Hillsboro, OR Member

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    If SHTF includes an EMP attack, life as we practice it will come to a screeching halt. Any of our electrical devices will cease to operate, maybe even self destruct. Generators, refrigerators, and anything with an electric motor will be useless. Very few vehicles will be able to run, as any gas or modern diesel vehicle depends on electrical or electronics to function. It's something that you need to take a long look at, as your BOV may be based on something that won't run in an EMP affected world. Hardened electronics aren't generally available to the common man, so figure your car is down for the count.

    Now, if you have old school diesel powered vehicles, your main problem will be starting them, as they have an electric starter. Once started, they will run until stopped or out of fuel, as they depend on compression for ignition, not spark plugs. Some diesels use glow plugs as a start aid, so these probably won't start easily as the glow plug system is electric. You could disconnect the glow plug system and use a starting aid such as ether, gasoline, or propane. Used sparingly, you can get it to fire off quickly and continue to run on fuel. As I said before, cranking the engine will be the big issue.

    I have a 1966 Jeep CJ5 that I'm planning on re-powering with an Isuzu diesel engine from a P'up pickup. I also found another P'up for sale in excellent condition at a great price. I plan on converting them to air starters, which are available for larger diesel engines. I may have to build them myself, but I should be able to modify existing air motors to work. With an air compressor and tank on the vehicle and a propane injection system installed for a starting aid, I believe I can guarantee mobility for myself and family to get where I need to go.

    Anyone else even considering the EMP scenario? The North Korean attack on the government websites was probably feelers to see where we are vulnerable to just this sort of attack.
     
  2. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You might want to look a little closer at the effects of EMP. It primarily
    trashes electronics---not just anything electrical. Older cars with
    plain ignition systems will be fine. The starter motor on whatever
    will still spin if you put some voltage to it. It WILL raise **** with
    the power grid and communications.
     
  3. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    As far as vehicles go, a battery disconnect switch will prevent most damage. Install on the ground side, close to the battery's neg. terminal. A ground strap like the old static straps that ground the chassis to the earth would help too.
    It seems many devices will survive if disconnected or at least turned off.
    If possible, replacing antennas with collapsible ones would be advisable too. Especially if they are configured to collapse into a faraday cage type tube.

     
  4. aflineman

    aflineman Both South of Eugene and East of Portland. Active Member

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    http://www.empcommission.org/index.php
    Good info in the documents. Particularly in the transportation section for the stuff about cars. May not be as bad as some think about disabling cars. The support infrastructure however....:paranoid:
     
  5. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

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    I guess I'm not the only one who listened to coast to coast am the other night.:winkkiss:
     
  6. kj Plattner

    kj Plattner Washington New Member

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    If you are really worried about EMP, get an older VW which does not use computer anything, integrated circuit anything, etc. You will be just fine. However, you will still have the same problem as with a diesel - where are you going to get your fuel from?

    As for Coast To Coast, I listen to them anytime I need a good laugh. They rarely have someone whom actually knows what they are talking about on......
     
  7. gunluvver

    gunluvver Hillsboro, OR Member

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    Diesel fuel is easy, any oil will work. Gas engines take a little more imagination, but can run on combustible vapors from anything volatile.
     
  8. PeakResources

    PeakResources Portland (past) Colorado (now) Member

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    I converted an 1987 Montero to a Mitsu diesel. For me, it's not about the EMP (which my motor should be relatively immune to according to what I've read), but about fuel. As gunluvver pointed out, diesel motors will run on just about anything. I can put waste veggie oil down it. I can put waste motor oil down it. I can run it on diesel fuel. I can run it on soy oil. Plus, I get 27mpg in a 4x4 rig, and get lots of great wheeling torque.

    For those wondering (which is probably none of you), early Montero & Dodge Raiders with the 4-cylinder motor are relatively easy to convert to the 4d56t Mitsubishi diesel. The motor is pretty much the same as the 4gxx in those trucks.
     
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  9. Diamondback

    Diamondback A cold, wet green Hell Well-Known Member

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    Or, find some way to turn your garage into a giant Faraday cage... and make sure it's closed up tight whenever you're home.
     
  10. Scrammer

    Scrammer SW Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  11. aflineman

    aflineman Both South of Eugene and East of Portland. Active Member

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    That is what 60' container vans are for. Just make sure that you have good ground leads exothermically welded to each corner, and exothermically welded to two 10' ground rods at each end. Make sure the rods are spaced 15' from each other. It should be able to dissipate most any charge thrown at it.
     
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  12. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    Nothin beats the old (pre-electronic) Mercedes Diesels. Run forever, chew almost anything, great cars to own and drive.... and the cheapest things I've ever found to keep on the road.

    As to using a steamship can for a Farraday cage, it should work just as is. I don't see how adding all those fancy earthing straps and rods will change anything. A fully enclosed conductive container will shield whatever is inside it. Probably one of steel will be better, since we're dealing with an electromagnetic field. The refer cans are often made of aluminium, and may not dampen the magnetic fields as well, bring non-ferrous.

    Yes, a standard mechanical injection diesel engine CAN burn waste oil, but it will be REAL hard to get it started if that's what's left in the high pressure system when last shut down. A two fuel system, switching to something like diesel oil before shutdown, should work best. Then, when starting up from cold, you're starting on diesel, or some other light oil. Waste motor oil is far too heavy to vapourise sufficiently to light when first starting from cold. Once warm, it will do much better, though not as well as a lighter fuel. Hey, ocean going ships use diesel engines that burn Bunker C fuel, almost like tar. The systems preheat the oil to the point it will flow, the engines turn slowly enough (about 900 RPM) and things are big enough it works. Typical automotive and light truck diesel systems use a prechamber design, glow plugs to start, run at much higher RPM (typically 3400, even 4200 RPM) and simply will not handle an oil as heavy as waste motor oil. Automatic transmission fluid does work alright once the engine is warmed up.. so, find your neighbourhood trans shop and work out to take all their drain oil, which is largly the red gearbox fluid. Its about a ten weight oil, high in detergents. An old Oakie trick is to run a pint of ATF through the fuel system on your diesel every year or so... cleans out the injectors just fine. Make sure the engine is warm, though. Most precup engines will not start well, particularly in colder weather (ah, but it never does that around here..... ) on most vegetable oils. Again, the dual fuel plan is a must, particularly in our winters.
     
  13. packman

    packman coast Active Member

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    i have plans to have an extra ecm and injector drive module
    for my powerstroke in a faraday cage along with 2way radios
    wind up sw radio and a 5500w genny.the cage is quite simple to build
     
  14. simpleguy

    simpleguy Clackamas Active Member

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    Dodge Diesel Pickup from 1991........no electronics, no problem.
     
  15. whatzhizname

    whatzhizname Southern Oregon and occasionally PDX Member

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    Just read the Forstchen book ("One Second After") too. Only took me two days I was so sucked in. Really makes you think. Even got my mother-in-law to read it while she's staying with us. Definitely worth taking some time to read if for no other reason than to get you thinking in a "what would I do in that situation" frame of mind.
     
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  16. ragr

    ragr Snoho New Member

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    I read it recently too. Good story, good info. Had my wife read it because we'd had a discussion a few months back about EMPs. When I was in the Air Force 15 or so years ago I worked in Space Command tracking missle launches around the world and all the buildings we worked out of were EMP shielded. I've always recognized since those days how real the the threat is seeing and reacting to various launches around the world that never made it to the public media. Living in the Pacific NW my the two main threats I carry an EDC system for are major earthquakes and EMP attacks. I've got an old microwave oven in the garage and grounded to the earth outside with a couple electronics I want shielded. A microwave oven is basically a small faraday cage.

    Although, even with a multiple blast attack that blankets the US with EMP, Seattle and much of the west and east coast will be spared the EMP since it won't quite reach. But the fact that the rest of the nation will be shut down and without food goods and medicine being manufactured and distributed will make us having electricity kind of a moot point anyway.

    -r
     
  17. Wenis

    Wenis Tri-Cities, WA Member

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    Perhaps I'm a little green on the issue, so forgive the ignorance as a learning question, but during an EMP, wouldn't it be difficult to get gas from an electric pump regardless of fuel injection? I'm sure you could figure out some sort of manual pumping method out of the filling hatch, but is that the idea for obtaining your gas/diesel or are people hording drums of this in their garage?
     
  18. MacBookProAR

    MacBookProAR Stayton Member

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    Push start my TW200
     
  19. shockercustoms

    shockercustoms Forest Grove, Oregon Member

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    Why not resort to ATV's and Dirtbikes. An EMP won't stop you from starting a pull or kick starter.:)
     
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  20. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should consider the alternative of bugging in?

    jj