A Message From Federal, CCI, Speer And Remington President Jason Vanderbrink On Ammo Demand

[The Heretic]

In our morning staff meeting yesterday we discussed contracts also. We use a lot of bark to make potting soil and been having a hard time getting it. We use 100 units a season plus. Each truck load is a 53' 4 axle trailer that hauls 11 units to put things in perspective. One of the owners told our buyers to contract 2000 units at a time and piss on the small guys that we need to secure our company's future first.

so I'm sure you are correct.. they most likes have some large contracts to fill before the shelves fill back up.

The gov has been buying ammo in large quantities for years. I have not heard about any large runs/contracts recently - but generally, the retail market is larger than the government one as there are many more civilian gun owners than there are LEOs and military. Plus gov contracts are often run on separate lines, especially for the military which is often run on gov owned lines but managed by private companies.

Some of the ammo I have bought in the last couple of years has been government overruns - good ammo for a good price - pistol ammo same as retail, but not in a fancy box. Winchester SXT and Federal HST in white boxes, often advertised as gov overrun.

 

[billdeserthills]

Just one of those giant packs of toilet paper will last a small family half a frikin' year. Whoever is hoarding that stuff must have a lot of storage space.

Maybe they have a storage room full of things folks consider 'essential'-- people with a room full of ammo are making some bucks right now, hope that never happens with toilet paper

 

[Flopsweat]

Maybe they have a storage room full of things folks consider 'essential'-- people with a room full of ammo are making some bucks right now, hope that never happens with toilet paper

I'm not selling mine. I'm taking new people shooting. Better investment right now, seems to me.

 

[The Heretic]

Maybe they have a storage room full of things folks consider 'essential'-- people with a room full of ammo are making some bucks right now, hope that never happens with toilet paper

Ammo actually doesn't take up that much room. I have about 70K rounds of ammo, half centerfire, half rimfire, it takes up 4 shelves of a heavy duty shelf system from Costco, and there is still room for more. You could fit 100K rounds or more of ammo on a single pallet.

TP OTOH, takes up a lot of room, but I have 130+ rolls (mostly bought years ago) and that is sufficient for my purposes for about a year (assuming the kids bug out to my BOL).

I generally do not sell ammo, I mostly only buy it, and mostly at pre-pandemic or early pandemic prices.

 

[Mikej]

I seen this coming for years and have prepared myself accordingly. But that being said. I am a building maintenance supervisor for one of the largest ornamental/shade tree farms in the PNW. its a 40 million plus dollar per year company. we cannot hire a single competent person that will show up to work and work to save our lives. There seams to be a lack of any skilled or even semi skilled labor Left. Even trying to train younger people is pretty much impossible.

I have recently taken on a young drug abuser that I'm trying to help him make a life for himself. He has had a few past issues. I'm also trying to teach him a little of what's going on in today's Society with the political climate. His family from what I can tell is far left wing. So far he shows up to work every day and does what I ask of him.

in a nut shell it's almost impossible to hire anyone that really wants to work. So I can understand what the ammunition manufacturing plants are going through.

I've been spouting about the problem getting someone to show up for work for a long time. Wifey deals with the problem first hand, has for 10 years probably. I don't get it. Who's raising these kind of creatures?

Just one of those giant packs of toilet paper will last a small family half a frikin' year. Whoever is hoarding that stuff must be full of bubblegum.

FIFY

 

[Ruger Rich]

Works both ways.

I worked for one of the largest and oldest corporations. I showed up every single day (with a few exceptions when I was sick or even fewer times when I had a car problem - maybe once or twice a year) and called in promptly when I could not make it to work. Rarely took vacation because they didn't pay vacation.

Got paid 20% less than another guy who did the same work. It took 5 years to get the org to somewhat listen to what I was saying about how something should be done, and another couple years before they really took my advice.

I always gladly did what they told me to do.

I was told to give 2 weeks notice before quitting as that was the professional thing to do. I told them to assign certain projects to other younger devs who were going to be there longer after I would retire, but that I would work another year or two. What happens this year? They laid me off with 30 minutes notice - not two weeks. After 9 years I got zero severance - nothing - zip. Not even a thank you. They knew weeks if not months ahead that they were going to lay people off.

A good work environment goes both ways.

Been there, but that doesn't make you or I feel better. And it's a pisser if you try to fight. I gave up a few years ago lugging that "soap box" around. Loyalty comes from family and friends. Hardly ever from the company you work for. Wasn't always this way.

 

[The Heretic]

Been there, but that doesn't make you or I feel better. And it's a pisser if you try to fight. I gave up a few years ago lugging that "soap box" around. Loyalty comes from family and friends. Hardly ever from the company you work for. Wasn't always this way.

I have rarely worked for any org where it was a two way street and I have worked for a lot of orgs. Now that I am retired it doesn't bother me that much, but I do not forget when I feel I have been treated unfairly or unequally - by anybody.

A few times the loyalty/courtesy/etc. went as far as my immediate supervisor, but rarely did it go all the way up the ladder (and even then it was a mixed bag). Even in the military this was the case; my superiors had a set of rules for junior enlisted that did not apply to senior enlisted - one of the reasons I did not re-enlist.

 

[DizzyJ]

Here I am just commenting on what is in the video:

In the time of ammo shortages, they make .357 SIG ammo, packed in very expensive plastic boxes, as fast as they can? Even when the narrative is for 9mm???
That has nothing to do with the ability to jack the prices even higher on that?
22LR is going to solve the problem?
30-06 is the first hunting caliber that comes to mind?

This is my snarky commentary:

Do training people take time? Yes, it does. It also required to bring the last expert in this machinery out of retirement, in his wheelchair to explain how it works. The others were already deceased from old age.
IIRC I have seen videos of Turkish ammo manufacturers using more modern equipment.
I guess I should be grateful for what I saw was not steam-powered.

As there are other videos, done by knowledgeable, smart, and responsive authors, let us look at them as well.
Many, many times people said that manufacturers do not want to increase capacity, because if Trump were to win, the demand would drop.
Are they going to increase production now? Who knows. If they expect the ammo to have 200% tax and the market to shrink, probably not. Is that 30-06 in preparation for banning 5.56 and .308 rifles and pistols? I hope not.

Here is a true and positive story:

Meanwhile, I am amazed at how small companies continue to work despite the wartime lockdown.
A highly trained professional from Lok grips called me and spend half an hour on the phone with me, trying to help me.
How long did it take them to train him? Probably more than to learn how to fill boxes.
How much did it cost them to call me? Probably more than what they made from the grips (of course I bought them on sale ).
Grips, which were manufactured to my custom order at the same time of lockdown on CNC machines.

Sounds like you should send them some hate mail. Or, go to work for them to help speed up the process.

These things ebb and flow. They're hiring new people and working a $hit ton of overtime I'm sure. These same companies don't want to lay off 1/2 their workforce when the supply catches up with demand.

Having worked in manufacturing, I get it.

 

[Soli]

I have rarely worked for any org where it was a two way street and I have worked for a lot of orgs. Now that I am retired it doesn't bother me that much, but I do not forget when I feel I have been treated unfairly or unequally - by anybody.

A few times the loyalty/courtesy/etc. went as far as my immediate supervisor, but rarely did it go all the way up the ladder (and even then it was a mixed bag). Even in the military this was the case; my superiors had a set of rules for junior enlisted that did not apply to senior enlisted - one of the reasons I did not re-enlist.

I was blessed with the opportunity to work for Ross Perot for about 10 years, mid 80s to mid 90s.

It wasn't paradise; a-holes existed there as everywhere. What was different tho was two way loyalty. It was a place where if you produced you were not treated as a disposable cog. The company invested in you, with very clear requirements, eg, you owed them money if you quit within a certain time after they trained you. Some bubblegumed, I loved it; a professional business arrangement where all was clear up front. IMO can't ask for more from a job. It is a BUSINESS, not a family. The work was demanding, the time commitment brutal. And rewarding. All made clear up front. And honored, actually held to. In that decade I was never taken by surprise, never aced out of something because of some unspoken policy.

And strangely enough (sarcasm), in that environment family type relationships actually developed. Lol people are clueless about how the world really works. In the real world if integrity exists relationships naturally bloom. And, strangely enough, that's good for business. Who woulda thunk?

<Edit> Now on alert for anyone who got screwed there after my sermon lol they were big companies!

 

[The Heretic]

Yeah, the one place I can think of where there was some two way integrity was where the org actually did some training, and my immediate supervisor was patient with me learning how to do something new.

 

[Flopsweat]

Yeah, the one place I can think of where there was some two way integrity was where the org actually did some training, and my immediate supervisor was patient with me learning how to do something new.

Learning is my specialty! Seriously some of the best gigs I've had included learning new or existing tech that no one on the team knew and then implementing a solution with it and/or mentoring the team on it. Those are the fun ones.

 

[The Heretic]

Learning is my specialty! Seriously some of the best gigs I've had included learning new or existing tech that no one on the team knew and then implementing a solution with it and/or mentoring the team on it. Those are the fun ones.

Yes, the thing I like the most about writing software is learning new ways of doing things and new problem domains. Software engineering is always evolving, along with the languages, best practices and new frameworks. Some frameworks and languages turn out to be a flop or fad, others take off like mad, but there is always something new and interesting.

 

[BSDave]

Just one of those giant packs of toilet paper will last a small family half a frikin' year. Whoever is hoarding that stuff must have a lot of storage space.

My wife. She said there is no way she is wiping with news paper. I told her that's all the news paper is good for anymore.

 

[JRuby]

Yes, the thing I like the most about writing software is learning new ways of doing things and new problem domains. Software engineering is always evolving, along with the languages, best practices and new frameworks. Some frameworks and languages turn out to be a flop or fad, others take off like mad, but there is always something new and interesting.

And there is plenty to learn the problem is limlting to learning a few items at a time. I am studying ansible, python, docker and kubernetes, and AWS and could add a dozen more subjects on top of my three decades of unix work and infrastructure experience. I am looking forward to going back to work someday.

 

[gew98]

I never had any doubt that the manufacturers were churning out ammo as fast as they could, they would be stupid not to in this time of high demand.

I lay the cause of the prices at the feet of the retailers/resellers and those asking the prices.

I lay the cause of the shortage at the feet of those who did not plan ahead and who are panic buying ammo.

I am still buying ammo, but generally I do not pay panic prices. I sometimes pay more than I used to pay, but I am not going to pay 3-10X what it used to be.

The panic prices in my area of "western" KY jelly land are uber stoopid!!. I even see retailers asking up to $1 a round for 9mm. Minimum 80 cents a rd for 223 and often more if they lather the sales talk with oooh gahh green tip. 7,62x51.... don't even ask...it's that carnival barking stupid.

 

[gew98]

PS , can't find primers , powder or projo's without paying hijack prices.

 

[The Heretic]

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Great Ammo Shortage of 2020: When Will It End?

Gun owners across America are asking when ammunition will be available again. Here are some of the realities and expectations straight from the nation's top ammo makers.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Flopsweat]

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Great Ammo Shortage of 2020: When Will It End?

Gun owners across America are asking when ammunition will be available again. Here are some of the realities and expectations straight from the nation's top ammo makers.

www.americanrifleman.org

TL/DR: They don't know.

 

[The Heretic]

And there is plenty to learn the problem is limlting to learning a few items at a time. I am studying ansible, python, docker and kubernetes, and AWS and could add a dozen more subjects on top of my three decades of unix work and infrastructure experience. I am looking forward to going back to work someday.

Determining what to learn and what to ignore was indeed an issue for me. I envied those who seemed to be able to learn a new framework in a week or two when it took me months to switch from C++ to Java. The last 3 years or so I gave up on trying to learn new languages/platforms and concentrated on Java and Spring. My career was coming to an end and I knew it. I wasn't going to be able to keep up with all of it, especially dev-ops (which I left to the dev-ops team), and I hated JavaScript (which evolves an order of magnitude faster than Java) - towards the end it seemed that it was just too low level compared to Java.

Now I am a specialist - Java and Spring. Swing if I can find a gig where someone needs that, and I think I have.

It doesn't have to last anymore than a few months (if at all), just enough to add a few $ onto my income long enough to get thru this fiasco a little better than relying on relief from WA DC, and if it is better than that, maybe to implement some of my plans that were interrupted. We'll see - one must be flexible and adapt.

 

[The Heretic]

TL/DR: They don't know.

There is some good info in the article. I am still reading it.