A Message From Federal, CCI, Speer And Remington President Jason Vanderbrink On Ammo Demand

[Certaindeaf]

Does that create a consensus?

It creates a Cortez, a Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

 

[No_Regerts]

It creates a Cortez, a Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Beside her head, I find rest of her attractive.

 

[DizzyJ]

Beside her head, I find rest of her attractive.

Butterface

 

[Mecanik]

I don't think the problem has ever been that the manufacturers of ammunition or the components were not making it. The problem has always been in the distribution system we use. The distributers need to make sure the products are not being hoarded at any level of the distribution system. If the retailers and distributers were to agree on a fair and reasonable method of stopping massive purchases by scalpers it would help.

 

[No_Regerts]

I go back and forth on the "distribution" issue. If Someone can afford it and they were there first, should they not be able to buy it?

 

[The Heretic]

Retailers are who should control sales, not distributors - if they want to.

Like I said before, I mostly only buy mass quantities and yes I hoard it - for myself. Most people are not buying just a box or two of ammo these days, they are buying more than they usually do, and often more than they need, because they are not sure when they will be able to get more. Once their shelves are full the demand will go down somewhat.

 

[Flopsweat]

The ammo is out there, it's just sitting in the closets of people who will probably never shoot it.

 

[The Heretic]

The ammo is out there, it's just sitting in the closets of people who will probably never shoot it.

I hope I never have to use most of it.

 

[arakboss]

A message from primer manufactures:
"Dear primer customers you are SOL"

 

[Boboclown]

Just want to point out, as someone who hauled raw materials, the amount of metal loads I had decreased as the trade wars started, and significantly decreased during covid.

Even if they had a faster method of manufacturing, if freight is slow then everything else slows down too.

 

[Mecanik]

Gas rationing during war was an answer to distributing fuel to all area's of the nation so that everyone could get to work and function normally. I see rationing of ammunition or the components as a tool to accomplish the same thing. But in this case the manufacturers and distributers could get together to make sure are larger percentage of the shooters are able to have access to the products in a fair and even manner. It would require the cooperation of the bottom end retailer to make sure there were limits on monthly purchases. Profiteering during a disaster something I despise and is universally looked down upon by the public. Just like hoarding drinking water or food after a natural disaster, it's only the lowlifes that would do such a thing.

 

[No_Regerts]

Retailers are who should control sales, not distributors - if they want to.

Like I said before, I mostly only buy mass quantities and yes I hoard it - for myself. Most people are not buying just a box or two of ammo these days, they are buying more than they usually do, and often more than they need, because they are not sure when they will be able to get more. Once their shelves are full the demand will go down somewhat.

Why would a retailer care where it goes as long as they get paid? Seems for efficiency sake, if one guy could buy all of it, thats a lot less effort for the same return.

 

[The Heretic]

Why would a retailer care where it goes as long as they get paid? Seems for efficiency sake, if one guy could buy all of it, thats a lot less effort for the same return.

They may or may not care. But why should they? Because they are the ones that are face to face with the customer, and they want return customers (if they are smart). They won't get return customers if one customer buys all their stock and the rest find empty shelves. Most people can deal with reasonable limits.

I buy mass quantities because:

1) I hoard for the reasons I've already mentioned. But I stop when I have enough and I am not trying to make a profit by scalping, I am trying to amass enough supplies for TEOTWAWKI so that my kids will live longer and be safe.

2) I live in the boonies. I don't like making multiple hour long trips into town to buy onsey twosey boxes of ammo. Hell, I don't even like getting out of my car to go into a store to get small amounts of ammo, unless I am going in for something else. I do the same thing with other supplies - I don't shop at the grocery store to get a gallon of milk, I fill up the cart with other supplies, spending up to an hour in the store getting those supplies. Because I only go into town once or twice a month.

3) When I shop online, I usually have to pay for shipping, where there is usually a minimum shipping charge, so the more I buy the more it is amortized over what I buy.

But a LGS? I rarely go there, so the retailer doesn't need to think about people like me. The whole reason we are having supply problems is because people are hoarding and buying large quantities (yes, similar to my purchasing - but I buy a LOT of ammo/etc. from people on this forum, and they generally prefer to sell to one person because they have the same issues with the transfer of goods I do - they are not retailers who are at their shop 40-50 hours a week, waiting on customers - they have lives and other things to do).

 

[No_Regerts]

They may or may not care. But why should they? Because they are the ones that are face to face with the customer, and they want return customers (if they are smart). They won't get return customers if one customer buys all their stock and the rest find empty shelves. Most people can deal with reasonable limits.

I buy mass quantities because:

1) I hoard for the reasons I've already mentioned. But I stop when I have enough and I am not trying to make a profit by scalping, I am trying to amass enough supplies for TEOTWAWKI so that my kids will live longer and be safe.

2) I live in the boonies. I don't like making multiple hour long trips into town to buy onsey twosey boxes of ammo. Hell, I don't even like getting out of my car to go into a store to get small amounts of ammo, unless I am going in for something else. I do the same thing with other supplies - I don't shop at the grocery store to get a gallon of milk, I fill up the cart with other supplies, spending up to an hour in the store getting those supplies. Because I only go into town once or twice a month.

3) When I shop online, I usually have to pay for shipping, where there is usually a minimum shipping charge, so the more I buy the more it is amortized over what I buy.

But a LGS? I rarely go there, so the retailer doesn't need to think about people like me. The whole reason we are having supply problems is because people are hoarding and buying large quantities (yes, similar to my purchasing - but I buy a LOT of ammo/etc. from people on this forum, and they generally prefer to sell to one person because they have the same issues with the transfer of goods I do - they are not retailers who are at their shop 40-50 hours a week, waiting on customers - they have lives and other things to do).

Makes sense. The more reasons for people to come in the store, the more other crap they buy to go with their intended purchase.

 

[Mecanik]

1K or 5 K of primers is not hoarding or being unreasonable in any way. Buying 50K and selling them on gun broker for 150 dollars a thousand is. I have no problem with stocking up and some people actually consume thousands of rounds a year. It's the intent that bothers me. We're all in this together and we need to band together. If someone getting into reloading needs 100 primers I will sell him a box of them for what I paid. I have to answer to my maker some day and I don't want to tell him I gouged a fellow reloader just to make 10 bucks on a box of primers. Most reloaders load in small quantities, well under a 1000 rounds a year. Some might load less than 100 rounds a year. The free enterprise system is a great system but it has it's limits during times of a crisis.

 

[padraig]

I think this says it all....

 

[WTC]

1K or 5 K of primers is not hoarding. Buying 50K and selling them on gun broker for 150 dollars a thousand is. I have no problem with stocking up and some people actually consume thousands of rounds a year. It's the intent that bothers me. We're all in this together and we need to band together. If someone getting into reloading needs 100 primers I will sell him a box of them for what I paid. I have to answer to my maker some day and I don't want to tell him I gouged a fellow reloader just to make 10 bucks on a box of primers. Most reloaders load in small quantities, well under a 1000 rounds a year. Some might load less than 100 rounds a year. The free enterprise system is a great system but it has it's limits during times of a crisis.

That's where I'm at. If I could get 5k primers I would be set for a couple of years....I even offered to pay the .10 each price and haven't found much..... I just want to keep my guns fed, not doing anything else.....bout to start posting parts and try to trade this should say I am stupid....in my case anyways.

 

[peteNW503]

Hello today I came across an interesting article regarding the ammo shortage this is coming from Jason Vanderbrink which is the president of CCI, Federal, Gold dot , Remington.

* Raw material shortage

"The brass market for the most part is seeing unprecedented demand not only in the ammo market but the national coin shortage and that is certainly driving brass prices up and availability down," he says. "Brass is a hard commodity to acquire right now and every round that any ammo company makes, for the most part, has brass in it."

* Acquisition of Remington

Besides turning out rounds at the Federal plant, Vista is focused on getting the Remington ammunition plant running at full capacity in Lonoke, Arkansas. Vista purchased Remington ammunitionand its assets and the Remington trademark in October after the Remington Outdoor Company filed for bankruptcy. Currently, Vista is bringing back furloughed employees and hiring hundreds of new ones to get Remington Ammunition back on its feet.

"Ultimately the consumer wins with this acquisition," Vanderbrink says, who got his start in the ammunition business as a salesman for Remington. "We're going to invest heavily in the brand, we're going to invest heavily in the facility, and we're going to modernize it. At the end of the day, the American worker wins, and the end consumer wins… We will get production up and going and that will help [ammo] availability."

No one is quite sure when the ammo shortage will end, but it likely won't be any time soon. In November, Vista reported a year's worth of backlogged ammunition orders in excess of $1 billion.

"it's going to be awhile," Vanderbrink says. "All the shelves are empty, so we'll have to fill the shelves. Understanding the political climate in our country and the social unrest…all of those factors create demand. So I won't speculate, but getting the Remington factory up at max production will help the end consumer for sure."

What do you guy think? Will we get back to the good old day when you could find a box of ammo in stores? I do not believe you will see the same prices pre-election / pre-covid but I would be grateful just to see inventory levels get back to normal. I get tired of messaging and calling all these stores just to get " sorry we are out of ammo." Biden isn't helping by trying to restrict manufacturing. I'm trying to stay optimistic but be realistic at the same time. Thoughts??

*Source

Where’s All the Damn Ammo? Federal Premium’s President Has Some Answers

Frustration over the ammo shortage has created some pretty fun conspiracy theories. These are probably the top three: 1) companies are stockpiling their product to drive up demand; 2) ammo plants have shutdown completely; 3) ammo companies are in cahoots to stop selling to civilians and are now...

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's unprofitable to rejigger production to make $1 billion in backordered ammunition.
Pretty simple really.

 

[peteNW503]

It's unprofitable to rejigger production to make $1 billion in backordered ammunition.
Pretty simple really.

I had no idea the back orders were that bad! I wonder if military / law enforcement contracts were included in that $1 billion if not tack on a lot more! At this point they should halt the ability to backorder. Take care of pre-existing back orders, start getting shelves re-stocked then when supply is closer to meeting demand give the option to be placed on back order. I don't understand why so many people are okay with back ordering a product with an estimated wait time of 6 months to a year out with no guarantee. Ammo is available you just have to be willing to go the extra miles to get it and it may be at a more costly price point but at least it will be in my hands and I'm able to use it! Within the amount of time you wasted waiting for your back order ammo, and the price of ammo itself which is ridiculous online you could have the ammo sitting in your lap in hours. Sometimes local stores have far better deals on ammo then online and if I'm buying from a private seller it's still worth spending an extra $5-15 per box to have the ammo I need when I need it. Within that 6 month to a year wait the $5-15 extra per box you end up paying locally is nothing compared to the peace of mind you will have knowing you have ammo if you need to use it.