Other State A good example of more than 4 rounds used in self defense

[MatthewDB]

I watched this recent video by Tom Grieve and thought it was pretty good overall:

But what stood out to me is here is a clear case of far more than 3 rounds being used in a successful self defense case.

Read More

 

[WillametteWill]

Worthy watch. I had seen the raw video prior. There are quite a few lessons.

The defender's normalcy bias and complacency got the best of him and could easily have gotten him killed.
Mag dumping through a closed door is likely not a great idea. If the bad guy makes entry, he is placing himself in a fatal funnel. You are responsible for every round you fire.
Whatever type of door this guy had...I want one of them. Impressive.

From the attorney:
He is incorrect that police do not need to make an immediate statement in most cases. They will generally be obligated to make a "public safety statement" with basic facts. If you refuse to talk knowing that two, armed home invaders are on the loose, this will make you look extremely bad and irresponsible (after you just blindly fired through a door). I would recommend using Mas Ayoob's guidelines (all over the internet and pretty sure posted a few places on this forum. A limited statement covering specific information then say you will cooperate after taking with your attorney.

There are more and more videos of citizens mag dumping at people blindly. (Okay, some officers too.) One was recently charged. This is an indicator of panic and is very difficult to defend.

Thanks for the post, good information to consider.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I counter with, all parties involved make a great argument for birth control.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

More than 4 rounds...
Or maybe less than 4 rounds...
Could even be 4 or more magazines....yikes...

Stopping a threat...takes whatever was done to stop it.
There are no set number of rounds or what have you.

Those who wish to cause you harm...
Won't play by your rules , likes , planning , training or what someone says on the internet.

Do what it takes to stop the threat.
If you need to talk to law enforcement remember the 3 C's ....
Clearly...
Completely...
Concisely....

Something to consider when shooting "for real"...
More than likely , you will not be presented with a shot that resembles a training target silhouette...
You will be shooting at someone who wants to do you harm...and wants to live as much as you do.
You need to take the best shot you can...given the situation that you are in .
Andy

 

[WillametteWill]

Something to consider when shooting "for real"...
More than likely , you will not be presented with a shot that resembles a training target silhouette...

Whaaaaaaat????? You mean I shouldn't expect to be attacked by an angry mob of cardboard-colored IPSC targets?


Sage wisdom as always from you sir.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Whaaaaaaat????? You mean I shouldn't expect to be attacked by an angry mob of cardboard-colored IPSC targets?


Sage wisdom as always from you sir.

Hey now....paper cuts are a serious threat at times...

Thank you for the kind words.
Andy

 

[Howard1955]

Good video. Thanks.

 

[eustace_stelio]

As soon as I would have seen that tatt'ed up thug looking dude through my peep hole I would've grabbed my pistol. Then told him to bugger off. Now once the 2nd guy popped up I might have even grabbed the rifle and gave them a warning shot or 2.

Crazy that scum are so brazen nowadays they're just doing this crap any time of the day.

 

[Stomper]

Worthy watch. I had seen the raw video prior. There are quite a few lessons.

The defender's normalcy bias and complacency got the best of him and could easily have gotten him killed.
Mag dumping through a closed door is likely not a great idea. If the bad guy makes entry, he is placing himself in a fatal funnel. You are responsible for every round you fire.
Whatever type of door this guy had...I want one of them. Impressive.

From the attorney:
He is incorrect that police do not need to make an immediate statement in most cases. They will generally be obligated to make a "public safety statement" with basic facts. If you refuse to talk knowing that two, armed home invaders are on the loose, this will make you look extremely bad and irresponsible (after you just blindly fired through a door). I would recommend using Mas Ayoob's guidelines (all over the internet and pretty sure posted a few places on this forum. A limited statement covering specific information then say you will cooperate after taking with your attorney.

There are more and more videos of citizens mag dumping at people blindly. (Okay, some officers too.) One was recently charged. This is an indicator of panic and is very difficult to defend.

Thanks for the post, good information to consider.

I would argue that he was not firing blindly through the door as he could see them in real time through the door camera.

As for the shot placement, the occupant was firing at the door from a (interior side) left angle, notice the rounds went to the perp's left and into the wall just to the right of the door exactly straight across from the occupant's door? That tells me he was either firing from his bedroom door, or (provided there is one) an adjacent hallway.

Listening to the occupant in the news interview…. he's clearly a goombah/dufus (albeit good-natured) and should have been on condition red as soon as he knew that guy was a fraud, but that's not a crime.

 

[AshWilliams]

So the victim mag dumps through the door and the perps escape unscathed? Did they ever catch these shizbags?

 

[Ben B.]

Aaron Contreras was arrested the same day on charges of aggravated assault, deadly conduct and attempted burglary of a habitation. He fired 2 shots at the door as running away. His felonious friend is still at large.

 

[Knobgoblin]

 

[Lilhigbee]

Aaron Contreras was arrested the same day on charges of aggravated assault, deadly conduct and attempted burglary of a habitation. He fired 2 shots at the door as running away. His felonious friend is still at large.

View attachment 1477007

I'll bet that with nothing more than a pair of handcuffs and an oven I could get the name of his cohort before his ears charred and fell off!!

 

[Stomper]

I'll bet that with nothing more than a pair of handcuffs and an oven I could get the name of his cohort before his ears charred and fell off!!

Handcuffed to a chair and a tablespoon to the eyes and he'd sing in less than 2 seconds, and then be wishing for death in another 5 seconds….

 

[MatthewDB]

Worthy watch. I had seen the raw video prior. There are quite a few lessons.

The defender's normalcy bias and complacency got the best of him and could easily have gotten him killed.
Mag dumping through a closed door is likely not a great idea. If the bad guy makes entry, he is placing himself in a fatal funnel. You are responsible for every round you fire.

I thought Tom Grieve covered this well. Generally shooting through the door is a bad idea. But seeing the gun out on the camera plus the kicking at the door is more than enough to justify shooting through the door.

Whatever type of door this guy had...I want one of them. Impressive.

Yeah, that big time. That door took an impressive beating. I'm not confident that my front door could take that kind of abuse.

 

[AshWilliams]

I thought Tom Grieve covered this well. Generally shooting through the door is a bad idea. But seeing the gun out on the camera plus the kicking at the door is more than enough to justify shooting through the door.


Yeah, that big time. That door took an impressive beating. I'm not confident that my front door could take that kind of abuse.

I use a security bar on my front door but I've also been meaning to get one of those door reinforcement sets as well as upgrade the locks. A security bar, such as this one, is very affordable and will at least prevent entry through the front door by kicking it in. I suppose they could eventually somehow force their way in but it'll take a long time and alert everyone on the street during the process. I also need to get some 3M film for the nearby windows.

 

[officially5150]

I thought Tom Grieve covered this well. Generally shooting through the door is a bad idea. But seeing the gun out on the camera plus the kicking at the door is more than enough to justify shooting through the door.


Yeah, that big time. That door took an impressive beating. I'm not confident that my front door could take that kind of abuse.

That door frame had a reinforced strike plate and probably extended screws longer than the 3/4 hardware that comes with the knob and since its an exterior door it could be a steel sheathed door so it doesn't have the normal break points most exterior wood doors have.

As for his placement when firing it looks like he was firing from in front of the TV, which is smart as you don't ever put yourself behind a door when shooting.

Either way he's still breathing because of his actions

And warning shots are generally a no no let alone in an environment like his

Just my 2 cents

 

[ma96782]

Aloha, Mark

 

[nammac]

That door frame had a reinforced strike plate and probably extended screws longer than the 3/4 hardware that comes with the knob and since its an exterior door it could be a steel sheathed door so it doesn't have the normal break points most exterior wood doors have.

As for his placement when firing it looks like he was firing from in front of the TV, which is smart as you don't ever put yourself behind a door when shooting.

Either way he's still breathing because of his actions

And warning shots are generally a no no let alone in an environment like his

Just my 2 cents

Need to replace the lame screws that are used for the lock hardware as well as the hinges. You want the screws long enough to engage the majority of the structural lumber behind that door frame.

At a minimum replace the striker plate screws for your handset and deadbolt. Also replace the screws on the hinges, this is a cheap fix and will add additional strength without being visible.

 

[Flopsweat]

I use a security bar on my front door but I've also been meaning to get one of those door reinforcement sets as well as upgrade the locks. A security bar, such as this one, is very affordable and will at least prevent entry through the front door by kicking it in. I suppose they could eventually somehow force their way in but it'll take a long time and alert everyone on the street during the process. I also need to get some 3M film for the nearby windows.

That's a good start but if you want one made in the USA and not china, here's a better one:

Rampart - Front Door Barricade

The Rampart is an inward-swinging door security bar that is guaranteed to keep intruders or active shooters out of your home or office. Order yours here today!

fightingchancesolutions.com