911 tape of fatal home invasion shooting

[g19]

Just so you all know not all agencies/dispatchers are as ignorant as that one. Last November I was in a similar situation-fortunately I did not have to shoot the suspect. He had a knife, was in my front entry, luckily for him I was able to talk him out of the knife (persuaded by the muzzle view of my Kimber). The Washington county dispatcher actually wanted me to keep the suspect contained until the sniper and entry team could get into good covering positions outside my house. Once I KNEW that the suspect was being covered by weapons (albeit from outside the windows) and only then did the dispatcher ask, did I safe my weapon. Had she asked before then I would have politely (yeah right) refused. Kudos to Washington county deputies for also not making out as the "bad guy" for keeping my family safe via my pistol. My prayers go out to that family having to be put through all that drama.

I know those Washington County boys, they are good people.

 

[IrishFitz]

If you can save two lives by deterring crime, why not? But that's not the country we live in....Oh well....

Sad, but true.

 

[Jdub22]

Yeah, right. That dispatcher needs to get TOLD, and told hard, NOT to be giving commands in a situation when she's not present. She's got NO IDEA what's going on there, and can not make a sound judgement call. Put the gun down when a crazy man has just busted into the house, and now has one round in him? No way. How can she possibly say ""he's not going to be getting back up"? If that was me inside that house and she'd told me to put the gun down, I'd tell her sorry, I won't be putting the gun down until the deputies are on the scene and have it firmly under control. This whole mindset that the "officials' are the ONLY ones who can DO anything stinks..... and has led to a nation of helpless, incompetent children who now NEED the nanny state to do it all... for a fee, of course.

+1

stupid dispatcher

 

[dragonsden73]

Nice to hear a real life situation like this.....what COULD and often DOES happen. The homeowner did an awesome job, warning he had a gun, "I don't want to hurt you", etc. Many warnings, justifiable no doubt. A big plus he said those things loud enough for it to be audible on the recording, that may have well been what saved him from being locked up.

 

[eriknemily]

I'm curious. A lot of you keep saying empty the mag. Wouldn't that get you into a heap of legal trouble? I'm all for it. I think you should be able to keep shooting until the BG stops moving or runs away (which he shouldn't be able to do fast enough). Anyway, I'm not familiar enough with the law to know if there is specific language regarding how many times you can shoot an intruder. In fact, I kind of doubt it. I'm sure it's left up to the omnipotent discretion of our benevolent DAs.

 

[markw76]

You shoot until there is no threat. If that takes the whole mag, well.....

As to the dispatcher, stupidity might not have anything to do with it, at least not on the call taker's part. Might have been policy.

I dispatched for Portland until 2004. Many years ago we were trained to advise an armed caller to do what they think is right since we were not there. All we were to do was have the caller safe it either when the officers on the scene ordered it, or as soon as the caller could safely do so and show their hands to the officer for visual confirmation. Seemed to work fine.

You might be competent, but there are a lot out there that aren't, and cops like to go home after shift.

 

[Rugerbub]

stupid dispatcher

Not to beat a deat horse but the job those dispatchers do is a very stressful one. They have a chart that tells them what they can and can't say. She was proably doing what she was told and trained to do. Dont make judgements until u can walk in there shoes. The guy did the right thing he neturalized the threat. He did what was in his familes and his own best interest.

 

[darkminstrel]

Brandishing is using your weapon to intimidate. That's the letter of the law. You can carry your pistol IWB, take off your overshirt and not be brandishing unless you do something stupid like stick your hip out, point to the grip and tell someone to back off or you're going to 'have to do something about it'. Then you're in trouble. If there is someone posing an imminent threat to your safety or the safety of the people in your home you can point that muzzle right at them.

If an intruder comes in, gets wounded but not killed then you won't face criminal charges if your actions were seen as appropriate to the situation. You'll get sued in civil court by the arsemonkey who came to rob you, but you should be clear in the eyes of the county. As to emptying the mag; go to jail, directly to jail. Your response has to be balanced. If he's still coming for you after two to the chest and you screaming for him to stop or you'll continue to fire; then put a few more in him. Then tell him to stop again, shoot more, warn him, shoot more. The verbal warnings predeeded by gunfire are what keep you safe. And please remember that it's your own admissions of the events that can hang you. 'He burst in and I just started shooting' will hang you quite well.

 

[Tactical SS]

In this case you most certainly can legally show/brandish your weapon since you are in your own house.

In Washington can't you can openly carry on your property or fixed place of business?

 

[SquatchWorks]

WOW!!!! well good for the home owner! and Ill agree with everyone that said the 911 op needs some work... I think I would have done the same thing...

 

[SquatchWorks]

I belive you CAN open carry in washington anywhere that it is legal to CCW... TINLA

 

[CEF1959]

Put the gun down? Bwwaaaahaaaaaaaa...... Good tip.

 

[pamela143n]

I always hate to hear of a reality check like this one.......... He had no choice....

 

[MarkAd]

If the attaker was close enough for you to determine the knife as a threat he was certainly close enought to kill you. Drawing your weapon was totally the correct action to take.

 

[bradley]

I must say guys I dont disagree with the comments that they should not told him to put the gun down. However just as she might not of known the situation, we certianly dont. For all we know the police could have just arrived on scene and she didnt want the home owner to get shot and/or the home owner to shoot the police thinking that it was bad guy number two!

 

[56kninja]

I'm not sure what the reason she was to ask him to put it down. But the way I interpreted it was that since the guy was on the ground, she didn't want the officers to arrive and shoot him since he had a gun.

 

[markw76]

I'm not sure what the reason she was to ask him to put it down. But the way I interpreted it was that since the guy was on the ground, she didn't want the officers to arrive and shoot him since he had a gun.

That's exactly it. AFTER ARRIVAL OF THE OFFICERS and they are about to make entry, we asked the caller to safe the weapon and put it down. When the police enter, nobody wanted a weapon seen in a hand and a shoot/don't shoot decision to go bad. I remember a couple callers were insistent on not putting it down, and after a couple refusals we just informed the officers so they could be extra cautious. We weren't there, so we really had no reason to override the caller's judgement.

A lot depends on how much experience the call taker has and how much discretion they are allowed by SOP to use.

 

[crosse]

you could kind of hear over the 911 op's radio that the officers were on scene and heard a shot fired. The 911 op was most likely trying to clear the room of potential threats for the officers. sounds like markw76 has some professional insight onto this?

 

[markw76]

Check my profile. I was on the mike 28 years.

 

[56kninja]

I figured as much. If the guy is on the ground, unless he is high and getting up again, I'd put my gun down.

If there's an imminent threat, I probably wouldn't (IE: They have a knife, and could lunge but haven't.)
If someone has a gun, I'm going to shoot them three times. Then I'm going to shoot them a couple more times. Repeat until they are sufficiently dead or the clip is empty.