Washington 1240 bill bans parts?

[JOCKITCH]

I am wanting to know if WA residents can possess HB1240 banned items while physically in another State.

You can have alot of parts sent right to your house

 

[rjmt]

Midwest Industries Shipping Information


Illinois & Washington State Weapons Ban Update

Due to the recent legislation passed by Illinois lawmakers (House Bill 5471) and Washington State lawmakers (House Bill 1240), Midwest Industries is restricted from shipping products to Illinois & Washington State residents. We are monitoring these situations closely in hopes that this is overturned in short order

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Remember, you had all those parts in your vehicle this whole time. You didn't go to Oregon and buy them.. so you aren't importing them.. you simply had purchased them and lost them in your vehicle and finally found them. You also happened to pay cash and throw away the receipt a while ago before the ban, remember?

 

[ma96782]

the state of washington govt has failed its population

Aloha, Mark

 

[JOCKITCH]

Midwest Industries Shipping Information


Illinois & Washington State Weapons Ban Update

Due to the recent legislation passed by Illinois lawmakers (House Bill 5471) and Washington State lawmakers (House Bill 1240), Midwest Industries is restricted from shipping products to Illinois & Washington State residents. We are monitoring these situations closely in hopes that this is overturned in short order

They choose not to ship some parts. Not all parts are banned

 

[kopcicle]

TLDR Warning:
If you are sick of my rhetoric just pass on by. Perhaps read the last few lines.

I'll say the quiet part out loud.
Pay cash or do without.
None of the parts mentioned as proscribed or prohibited in Washington State law are serialized.
However there is the issue of constructive possession.

Say you were in possession of multiple, legally purchased, 100% receivers prior to the law.
These are lawfully firearms as defined by federal law.
However
They are not functional weapons by observation or legal description.
In a post ban Washington the possession of the parts to assemble a prohibited firearm may constitute constructive possession.

In conclusion if you are one of the few (or many) that stocked up on legal receivers via conventional 4473 purchases prior to the ban your best legal defense is to assemble these receivers into complete firearms as the serial numbers of the frames or receivers in question have "possession dates" associated with their serial numbers via 4473.
Any accessories purchased since that time are not serialized and not regulated other than by appearance and quasi-legal opinion (Okay, here I'll allow some credence to the effect that the law is quite possibly unconstitutional) and have no such recorded date of purchase and possession.

Therefore if the State is able to subpoena financial records of financial institutions, wholesalers, retailers, yourself and others with intent to prosecute, based on a reasonable suspicion that a crime is or has been committed it would behoove any lawful gun owner to NOT have any financial records of "parts" transactions post ban.

While on the subject , when are .154" or .277" hardened steel pins just hardened steel pins and not part of an "Assault Weapon" ? When is a 13/16-16 UN-3B Special Tap just a tool and not a device or tool integral to the creation and manufacture of a weapon of war? I suppose the same could be said for a 9/16"- 24 TPI. or 5/8- 24 Die.
Likewise a 1" compression spring with 36 to 40 turns of wire just a spring?

Additionally, even if the necessary parts to create the complete rifles had been legally purchased prior to the ban if found unassembled there is a good case (without precedent and not much merit) for "constructive possession".
The case for constructive possession could extend to unserialized accessories and component parts that had no verifiable date of purchase and or ownership. Usually the burden of proof is on the state in such matters but considering the very nature of such an unconstitutional law would anyone trust that Bob Ferguson would let burden of proof stand in the way of prosecution?

While still in possession of the soap box I have one more point to make.

RCW 9.41.220 Unlawful firearms and parts contraband. All machine guns, bump-fire stocks, undetectable firearms, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles, or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, illegally held or illegally possessed are hereby declared to be contraband, and it shall be the duty of all peace officers, and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, to seize said machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found. [2019 c 243 § 4; 2018 c 7 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 421; 1933 c 64 § 4; RRS § 2518-4.] Effective dates—2018 c 7: See note following RCW 9.41.010. Finding—Intent—Severability—1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540. Effective date—1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

Since when is " and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States" Legally empowered to enforce Washington State laws? Is It then the duty of any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States to turn themselves in if in possession of an undetectable firearm or be punishable by at least malfeasance under the Uniform Code of Military Justice if not State law? I don't believe the UCMJ applies here because it is an unlawful order from outside the chain of command. Also therefore it is likewise not the duty of any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States to to seize said machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found.

Might as well address the minutiae in the room. Undetectable firearm. If it's undetectable, then isn't "whenever and wherever found" a bit rhetorical if not completely redundant?



I am a former FFL. I am a veteran. I am a patriot. I am not a lawyer. Because I know they are out to get me paranoia no longer is part of the discussion.

In brief, plain English then ,
"The first rule of ..."
No paper or electronic trail
Pay cash or do without
Build out your frames and receivers.
Do not be in constructive possession.
Do not simply elect but give your vote to individuals of a like mind that uphold the constitution of the United States of America.
Teach your children well.
Buy ammunition
Buy more ammunition
Eat apple pie
Be happy

"I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles
And piles
Of trials
With smiles.
It riles them to believe
That you perceive
The web they weave
And keep on thinking free."

~Justin Hayward

 

[rjmt]

Remember, you had all those parts in your vehicle this whole time. You didn't go to Oregon and buy them.. so you aren't importing them.. you simply had purchased them and lost them in your vehicle and finally found them. You also happened to pay cash and throw away the receipt a while ago before the ban, remember?

they were stored in the Barn back in 2017
amazing what you can misplace in a Barn
I think there's a TEC 9 buried in the hay loft out there

 

[rjmt]

TLDR Warning:
If you are sick of my rhetoric just pass on by. Perhaps read the last few lines.


In brief, plain English then ,
"The first rule of ..."
No paper or electronic trail
Pay cash or do without
Build out your frames and receivers.
Do not be in constructive possession.
Do not simply elect but give your vote to individuals of a like mind that uphold the constitution of the United States of America.
Teach your children well.
Buy ammunition
Buy more ammunition
Eat apple pie
Be happy


~Justin Hayward

I noted all parts I've purchased in the last couple years and had shipped in were listed as "machine parts" in both financial and shipping records
but in one case, I have one lower and 4 uppers matched to fit
I can't fire more than one AR at a time and with quick release pins, one can chance out an upper in 10 Sec
5.56, 6.5 Grendel, 300 BLK, carbine barrel, 18" Black Hole Weapons, 16" Hansen profile, 16" Mid gas Alexander Arms, all on one 1997 lower

found another upper in the Barn this morning - will send photos in a couple of days, have to clean the hay off it

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

they were stored in the Barn back in 2017
amazing what you can misplace in a Barn
I think there's a TEC 9 buried in the hay loft out there

Exactly.

 

[RX-79G]

TLDR Warning:
If you are sick of my rhetoric just pass on by. Perhaps read the last few lines.

I'll say the quiet part out loud.
Pay cash or do without.
None of the parts mentioned as proscribed or prohibited in Washington State law are serialized.
However there is the issue of constructive possession.

Say you were in possession of multiple, legally purchased, 100% receivers prior to the law.
These are lawfully firearms as defined by federal law.
However
They are not functional weapons by observation or legal description.
In a post ban Washington the possession of the parts to assemble a prohibited firearm may constitute constructive possession.

In conclusion if you are one of the few (or many) that stocked up on legal receivers via conventional 4473 purchases prior to the ban your best legal defense is to assemble these receivers into complete firearms as the serial numbers of the frames or receivers in question have "possession dates" associated with their serial numbers via 4473.
Any accessories purchased since that time are not serialized and not regulated other than by appearance and quasi-legal opinion (Okay, here I'll allow some credence to the effect that the law is quite possibly unconstitutional) and have no such recorded date of purchase and possession.

Therefore if the State is able to subpoena financial records of financial institutions, wholesalers, retailers, yourself and others with intent to prosecute, based on a reasonable suspicion that a crime is or has been committed it would behoove any lawful gun owner to NOT have any financial records of "parts" transactions post ban.

While on the subject , when are .154" or .277" hardened steel pins just hardened steel pins and not part of an "Assault Weapon" ? When is a 13/16-16 UN-3B Special Tap just a tool and not a device or tool integral to the creation and manufacture of a weapon of war? I suppose the same could be said for a 9/16"- 24 TPI. or 5/8- 24 Die.
Likewise a 1" compression spring with 36 to 40 turns of wire just a spring?

Additionally, even if the necessary parts to create the complete rifles had been legally purchased prior to the ban if found unassembled there is a good case (without precedent and not much merit) for "constructive possession".
The case for constructive possession could extend to unserialized accessories and component parts that had no verifiable date of purchase and or ownership. Usually the burden of proof is on the state in such matters but considering the very nature of such an unconstitutional law would anyone trust that Bob Ferguson would let burden of proof stand in the way of prosecution?

While still in possession of the soap box I have one more point to make.

RCW 9.41.220 Unlawful firearms and parts contraband. All machine guns, bump-fire stocks, undetectable firearms, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles, or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, illegally held or illegally possessed are hereby declared to be contraband, and it shall be the duty of all peace officers, and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, to seize said machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found. [2019 c 243 § 4; 2018 c 7 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 421; 1933 c 64 § 4; RRS § 2518-4.] Effective dates—2018 c 7: See note following RCW 9.41.010. Finding—Intent—Severability—1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540. Effective date—1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

Since when is " and/or any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States" Legally empowered to enforce Washington State laws? Is It then the duty of any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States to turn themselves in if in possession of an undetectable firearm or be punishable by at least malfeasance under the Uniform Code of Military Justice if not State law? I don't believe the UCMJ applies here because it is an unlawful order from outside the chain of command. Also therefore it is likewise not the duty of any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States to to seize said machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or parts thereof, wherever and whenever found.

Might as well address the minutiae in the room. Undetectable firearm. If it's undetectable, then isn't "whenever and wherever found" a bit rhetorical if not completely redundant?



I am a former FFL. I am a veteran. I am a patriot. I am not a lawyer. Because I know they are out to get me paranoia no longer is part of the discussion.

In brief, plain English then ,
"The first rule of ..."
No paper or electronic trail
Pay cash or do without
Build out your frames and receivers.
Do not be in constructive possession.
Do not simply elect but give your vote to individuals of a like mind that uphold the constitution of the United States of America.
Teach your children well.
Buy ammunition
Buy more ammunition
Eat apple pie
Be happy

"I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles
And piles
Of trials
With smiles.
It riles them to believe
That you perceive
The web they weave
And keep on thinking free."

~Justin Hayward

This is a fine road map if you are intent of violating state law. (If you didn't do the obvious and "build" all those receivers with parts from your other ARs before the band took effect, putting them in complete legal AW status.)


But the main problem is that all the completely legal AWs have become essentially unserviceable. I certainly wouldn't be breaking the law if my AR15 safety broke and I replaced it. In fact, I'll bet the WA AG would prefer I have a working safety. But actually getting an AR15 safety just became difficult.

 

[kopcicle]

But actually getting an AR15 safety just became difficult.

agreed

 

[kopcicle]

with quick release pins, one can chance out an upper in 10 Sec
5.56, 6.5 Grendel, 300 BLK, carbine barrel, 18" Black Hole Weapons, 16" Hansen profile, 16" Mid gas Alexander Arms, all on one 1997 lower

So are "quick change pins" assembly, construction, manufacturing?
I wouldn't put anything past sideshow Bob at this point.

 

[kopcicle]

This is a fine road map if you are intent of violating state law.

If you did not detect the subtlety in the post, yes. I'm not that good at subtlety.

 

[rjmt]

So are "quick change pins" assembly, construction, manufacturing?
I wouldn't put anything past sideshow Bob at this point.

if your building on a striped 2017 lower, they're pre ban assembly
now how is anyone going to prove when one installed these pins?
or built the uppers, for that mater
I recieved machine Parts from Anderson Arms back in 2017 - have the reciept - what does that matter

 

[rjmt]

This is a fine road map if you are intent of violating state law. (If you didn't do the obvious and "build" all those receivers with parts from your other ARs before the band took effect, putting them in complete legal AW status.)


But the main problem is that all the completely legal AWs have become essentially unserviceable. I certainly wouldn't be breaking the law if my AR15 safety broke and I replaced it. In fact, I'll bet the WA AG would prefer I have a working safety. But actually getting an AR15 safety just became difficult.

when I first moved out here, Animal Control told me I need to register and pay license fees for all my barn cats and dogs
still waiting for the Washington Animal Control Nazis to raid my property and confiscate my barn cats
I feel the same for my ARs
I hear ARs shooting up and down my county road daily
still have to hear of Washington State Gestapo raiding any of the Mormon farms around me to confiscate their ARs

 

[rjmt]

when I first moved out here, Animal Control told me I need to register and pay license fees for all my barn cats and dogs
still waiting for the Washington Animal Control Nazis to raid my property and confiscate my barn cats
I feel the same for my ARs
I hear ARs shooting up and down my county road daily
still have to hear of Washington State Gestapo raiding any of the Mormon farms around me to confiscate their ARs

I've been to many a BBQ on a local Mormon property
if one of them was raided by a Sate or Federal agency for their ARs, the LDS Church would know about it before I would
remember the US Gov sent an ARMY to take away the Mormons firearms once before - it did not go well

 

[RX-79G]

when I first moved out here, Animal Control told me I need to register and pay license fees for all my barn cats and dogs
still waiting for the Washington Animal Control Nazis to raid my property and confiscate my barn cats
I feel the same for my ARs
I hear ARs shooting up and down my county road daily
still have to hear of Washington State Gestapo raiding any of the Mormon farms around me to confiscate their ARs

What are you talking about? ARs aren't illegal to own in WA and have no registration requirements.

 

[rjmt]

What are you talking about? ARs aren't illegal to own in WA and have no registration requirements.

pre ban ARs are not illegal to own - new assembly of ARs is
do you think me and my neighbors have stopped building ARs?
REALLY?
what I call a free float AR front hand guard is called a barrel shroud by Washington state and is now banned

 

[RX-79G]

pre ban ARs are not illegal to own - new assembly of ARs is
do you think me and my neighbors have stopped building ARs?
REALLY?
what I call a free float AR front hand guard is called a barrel shroud by Washington state and is now banned

How would anyone tell your recently built ARs from ones you assembled before the ban?
REALLY?

Unless, of course, you are smuggling lowers into the state that are easily shown to be post-ban. But that still relies on someone finding the fact that you are shooting an AR suspicious, and it isn't. Hundreds of thousands of legal ARs in WA.

 

[rjmt]

How would anyone tell your recently built ARs from ones you assembled before the ban?
REALLY?

Unless, of course, you are smuggling lowers into the state that are easily shown to be post-ban. But that still relies on someone finding the fact that you are shooting an AR suspicious, and it isn't. Hundreds of thousands of legal ARs in WA.

I get it
not sending any more photos of my AR builds