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Will George Zimmerman be cleared in yet another shooting?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Lance Jacobs, May 16, 2015.

  1. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    For the past few days, reporters for CNN and MSNBC have been foaming at the mouth, ranting about what an unstable and dangerous person George Zimmerman is, and all but blamed him for this shooting incident that happened earlier this week on Monday.

    However, Friday night the police arrested the man who shot at Zimmerman, and charged him with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and firing a missile into an occupied conveyance.

    The Orlando Sentinel newspaper has published this:

    "After conducting numerous interviews throughout the week, detectives determined that Mr. Apperson did intentionally fire his weapon into the vehicle occupied by George Zimmerman without provocation," Police spokeswoman Bianca Gillett said in a statement.

    For some reason, both CNN and MSNBC have failed to include this statement from the police in their reporting about this arrest. But they both continue to point out that the attorney for the arrested man is claiming self-defense.

    Here is a link to the full Orlando Sentinel article:

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...arrested-george-zimmerman-20150515-story.html


    .
     
  2. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    I personally think Mr. Zimmerman is a piece of poop and more than that, an instigator or lightning rod. There are some people that continually find trouble. This guy Anderson and Zimmerman have history and there were other incidents between them that got police involved. Road rage apparently. Whatever happened, Anderson should not have brought out a gun, but I bet Zimmerman didn't see him and drive the other way either.

    Zimmerman is going to come to a sticky end and frankly, I won't miss him a bit.

    That all being said, the story is not Mr. Zimmerman in this case, it is Mr. Anderson firing a gun at someone in a road rage incident and he was, rightly, arrested and should be prosecuted.
     
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  3. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    September incidents
    Apperson calling 911, stalking, no witnesses. Zimmerman calm.

    May incident
    Apperson shooting at Zimmerman, evidence, witnesses.

    Setup?
     
  4. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    Will George Zimmerman be cleared in yet another shooting?


    I never read anything about him doing any shooting:s0123:
     
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  5. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Apperson has been claiming all along that Zimmerman forced him to shoot in self-defense. He made Zimmerman out to be the instigator.

    I'm beginning to wonder, could Apperson perhaps be mentally unstable?


    Apperson.jpg


    A judge has ordered Apperson to surrender his firearms to police. If this was a trap for Zimmerman, it appears to have backfired on Apperson very badly.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/george-zimmerman-shooting-matthew-apperson-charged-n360006

    Here is a photo of Zimmerman that was taken by police after the incident:


    o-GEORGE-ZIMMERMAN-BLOODY-FACE-PHOTO-facebook.jpg
    .
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
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  6. JamesRL

    JamesRL Beaverton Active Member

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    Mr. Apperson's statements don't make a lot of sense. He previously called the police and claimed that Zimmerman threatened him during a "road rage" incident but he refused to press charges. He then ends up window-to-window with George Zimmerman and ends up shooting at him, claiming that Zimmerman pointed a gun at him.

    I suppose it all could have happened the way Mr. Apperson described, but it begs the question of why Mr. Apperson took the time to (presumably) draw a weapon, aim and fire rather than just hitting the gas (his foot was right there) and getting out of there? A simpler explanation is that Mr. Apperson is "stalking" George Zimmerman because Zimmerman is "famous" and threw a shot at him for reasons unkown.

    Typically, these sort of "he said, he said" situations end up with the person firing the first shot going to jail; without witnesses or a confession, the police (and a jury, most likely) will assume that the person firing the first shot was the aggressor.

    However it turns out for Apperson and Zimmerman, there is a lesson here for everyone who carries a gun for self-defense. If you find yourself in a situation where you feel threatened and can escape (e.g. by pushing down the accelerator and bugging out), DO IT.


    Jim
     
  7. bakersman345

    bakersman345 Camas wa Well-Known Member

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    Zimmerman's life was screwed after the press and Obama made it into a national shi.storm, he was cleared by a jury and is for all intensive purposes innocent. He has been slipping since the Martin case, and who could blame him? Around every corner someone wants him dead. I'm surprised its taken this long for someone to take a shot.

    To answer the question from the op yes he will be cleared just like before because he was in the right (in my opinion)
     
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  8. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    It's possible that Zimmerman is simply a magnet for trouble but it's more likely that he is pushing things when he should simply walk away. Some people like playing with fire.

    Leaving aside the encounter with Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman has a history of bad decisions when it comes to confrontations. He has been arrested for assault on a state liquor control officer. He has been arrested for domestic violence multiple times with different women. And now he has this ongoing personality conflict with Apperson.

    Individually, each incident could be pinned on the other person and explained away but when taken together it does look like a consistent pattern where George Zimmerman chooses to engage. -It's the old joke if you encounter a guy who's a prick to you, maybe he's a prick; but if you keep encountering pricks throughout the day, maybe you're the prick.

    Although Apperson seems like a nut and got arrested, Zimmerman will eventually run out of luck if he continues on his current trajectory.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
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  9. JamesRL

    JamesRL Beaverton Active Member

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    I don't disagree that George Zimmerman has become (if he wasn't already) a magnet for trouble, largely because of his own poor decision-making. For that matter, his decision to shadow Trayvon Martin was also an example of poor decision-making.

    I'm not saying that he was in the wrong on the Trayvon Martin shooting, just that it was a poor decision to follow, on foot, a potentially armed thug in a deserted area. If Martin had been armed, Zimmerman would be dead.

    Hopefully, George Zimmerman will wake up to the fact that he's making bad choices; if he doesn't, he'll end up either dead or in prison.


    Jim
     
  10. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Title is way misleading. He was the one being shot at, not the shooter.
    Sounds more like and MSM headline :\/\/\/\/\
    That just feeds the Obama Bullcrap.
    Damn... Let it go.........:\/\/\/\
     
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  11. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I would have to believe that the police must have found witnesses who collaborated Zimmerman's narrative. I think that a prosecutor would need more than just "he said, she said" in order to pursue a case in court. The shooting took place in the middle of the day ( 12:45pm ) on a busy 4 lane thoroughfare. No way could such an incident in broad daylight be totally unnoticed by anyone.


    Alas, I would be screwed then. Jamming the accelerator down on my vehicle accomplishes very little.

    :eek:


    prius_mine.jpg
     
  12. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think that your argument weakens greatly when one realizes that the charges in all of these other arrests that you cite were all dropped, and never pursued in court. You somehow managed to forget to include that detail.

    And you are totally inaccurate and exaggerating significantly regarding his history of domestic violence. He had one girlfriend many years ago who filed a restraining order against him. However, he was NEVER ARRESTED and NEVER CHARGED with any crime. All he had was a restraining order made out against him.

    I guess you must not realize how extremely easy it is for any woman to get a restraining order, and how reluctant courts are to not grant them. And it was never alleged that he violated the order.

    In the second more recent incident with a newer girlfriend, the girlfriend later told police that SHE LIED TO THEM about him allegedly throwing a bottle of wine in her direction and missing her. She said that she was angry at him and made the story up in order to get him into trouble. So while he was initially arrested in that case, the charges were dropped and never pursued in court.

    Her story was totally made up and never was that credible, and it broke down once the police questioned her later in more detail. The girlfriend was living in Zimmerman's house at the time and they had been arguing, and she did not want to be kicked out. She admitted that she lied to the police, so that he would be taken away instead.


    Anyway, as the late Paul Harvey used to say: AND FOLKS, THAT'S THE REST OF THE STORY .......

    .
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
  13. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    There's no need to be passive aggressive. I didn't "somehow" forget to include the details. My point was that Zimmerman keeps getting into things that necessitate the involvement of law enforcement. –If you keep getting arrested, maybe you’re the problem not everyone else.

    As for not getting convicted, it's unrealistic to view the prosecution's decision not to proceed with the cases as anything close to approval of the decisions Zimmerman has made or his conduct.

    Prosecutors decline to pursue many cases and often it has to do with not wanting to risk limited resources on a case that could go either way in court. It's generally not something where they think the guy who was arrested was an upstanding citizen. With a person who continually crosses the line, they know they'll have another opportunity. They simply have to wait.

    Still, let’s take the cases one at a time. Zimmerman went into a diversionary program for the assault on the liquor control officer. That was not validation or endorsement of the decision Zimmerman made in that encounter. It was not an acquittal. Zimmerman was as wrong as could be and he did the program to avoid getting a conviction on his record.

    I was not referring to the woman who filed the restraining order. I was talking about the recent arrests for domestic violence in November of 2013 and the one in January of 2015. Instead of hitting Caps Lock and shouting, look up the arrests. I'm not exaggerating anything about them. I didn't go into the details about them so I don't know why you feel that it was inaccurate to say he was arrested when he was and the incidents were with different women when they were. However, since you brought up the woman with the restraining order, do you think it's normal for one man to have this amount of drama with three different women and none of them are his ex-wife?

    It is not normal for a woman to call the police to report a domestic violence complaint. Having multiple women making similar complaints about violence or threats of violence points to a problem with George.

    You are correct that George was not convicted in the recent domestic violence cases but that was because the women declined to cooperate with the prosecutor's office. The one who claimed he threw a wine bottle at her recanted. The version of events you typed about her not wanting to get kicked out of the apartment does not match the version of events I have read. I’ll admit that I haven’t followed it too closely. I do not recall hearing that the prosecution obtained a conviction against the woman for filing a false police report. If you believe she lied, what does the lack of a conviction mean to you in her case?

    The reality is aside from George being taken away in cuffs, neither of us will ever know what happened that night. It's not uncommon for women to forgive their abusers and recant. There are plenty of stories about police arriving on a domestic violence call, arresting the abuser, and then having to fend off the woman who does not want the police taking away her man. People do odd things when they're in dysfunctional relationships.

    However, for the sake of argument, let's say the girlfriend is a terrible person who lied to the police to get leverage over George. Let’s say she got the police to toss George in jail because she was mad at him and she wanted to stay in the apartment. Let’s say the other two women are also psychos who completely fabricated their tales of threats or domestic violence. One has to recognize that normal women don’t do this. If George really is a total angel who keeps dating women who make up domestic violence stories, then he's filtering for psychos. That alone is evidence that he is making bad decisions.

    Honestly, George does not seem to be an angel. The various claims of breaking iPads, throwing wine bottles, etc. all are in line with someone who knows how far he can go without risking a conviction.

    Actually, I do realize that. That's part of the reason I did not mention it initially. Temporary Restraining Orders for domestic partners are practically automatic. I absolutely feel for someone who is unjustly accused but that's not what we're seeing with George. He’s dancing on the line. It's the old "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" deal.

    If George continues on his current path, it’ll just be a matter of time before it goes wrong for him permanently.
     
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  14. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    Which of us could stand up to the same scrutiny as GZ? I'm certainly glad that people two thousand miles away aren't passing judgement on me presuming my guilt by default. There is no place he can go where people bitter about Martin will not seek him out, and men, like women tend to seek the same partner over and over again and keep repeating the same mistakes.

    I had a brother that kept picking the same loser women over and over again. They would even conspire with each other to cause him trouble and lose jobs, like making a false abuse charge to get him arrested at work, then dropping it later so they wouldn't have to risk appearing in front of a judge. Finally, a good woman chose him and the cycle was broken. Not saying GZ did not do any domestic abuse, but I've seen the other side of it.
     
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  15. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    No one has ever claimed that George Zimmerman is any angel. But the simple fact remains that he has never been convicted of any crime, and that he was only taken to trial once. And that one single time, the unanimous opinion of just about everyone with any common sense was that there was never any evidence against him that could possibly have led to a conviction, and that he was prosecuted for purely political motives.

    And if you don't think that there are dishonest women in this world that are willing to lie to the police in order to spit their boyfriend or soon to be ex-husband, you are living in a dream world. And if you think that the police ever bother to charge such women with making a false police report, well, you are off in dreamland about that too. Women lie all of the time about abuse and threats to get restraining orders during divorces. Ask any divorce lawyer, and they will tell you that restraining orders are taken out routinely during divorces.

    The women in both the 2013 and 2015 cases recanted their stories to police. Once again, a key fact that you conveniently left out. And you want us to believe that you are being fair to Zimmerman?

    Neither woman suffered any physical injuries whatsoever. In the first case the woman accused Zimmerman of pointing a shotgun at her, and in the latest incident the woman lied that he had throw a wine bottle in her direction. Neither woman ever alleged that Zimmerman physically harmed them.

    And you want to make him out to be some kind of psychopathic abuser? Give us a break. Both women ended their relationships with Zimmerman after these incidents. Why would they be motivated to protect him?

    You sure seem comfortable so harshly condemning a person that you don't even know personally. And all from the pulpit of an anonymous Internet handle.

    If you really believe that George Zimmerman is such an awful person, then why on earth won't you even stand behind your own words??

    You should go work for CNN or MSNBC, as you pretty much talk about Zimmerman in the same way that their reporters do. Except that they would require that go public with your opinions, and not hide behind the mask of Internet anonymity.
    .
     
  16. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    You're defending a fool who makes bad choices time after time. GZ is like many other people that just are like this.
     
  17. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    If they put people in prison for being stupid, just plain dumb, or being an all around D-bag, 9/10 of the planet would be a prison. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    SO the Brake pedal wouldn't work way faster then any gas pedal to change the relationship of two side by side vehicles traveling the same speed.
     
  19. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    You are ignoring the diversionary program for the assault on the liquor control officer. That is why he avoided prosecution. Again, it's not something where he did nothing wrong. It was an instance where he demonstrated an anger management problem that is consistent with the other issues he keeps having.

    The unanimous opinion of just about everyone with common sense? Really? Everyone who disagrees with you doesn't have common sense? Come on. Grow up.

    A lot of people within the shooting community believe George made multiple mistakes that evening. And yes there was evidence that "could" have supported a conviction. You had an armed adult stalking an unarmed teenager. No defense attorney wants those facts. That's why the defense team had to argue that Trayvon "armed himself" with the concrete sidewalk and they insisted that George got out of the car to read an address, not to pursue Trayvon on foot. The defense team knew if they lost on those points, George would get convicted.

    The prosecution made huge mistakes. They overcharged Zimmerman in order to get leverage to make a plea deal. When that didn't happen, they were stuck going to trial with a charge that was more severe than what occurred. That left the jury with problem of convicting Zimmerman for murder or letting him walk. If the prosecution had simply gone for manslaughter instead of Second Degree Murder, it could have been a different result.

    Another problem the prosecution had was that it did a poor job with what it had while Zimmerman's defense team did much better work.

    I never said there were not dishonest women in the world. I said that it was not the norm for women to make up stories about domestic violence to get their boyfriends arrested. Your anger about this point makes me wonder how many times you have been accused of domestic violence. Have you been arrested a lot?

    It's not a question of "dreamland." It's an issue of you being inconsistent with the standard you're applying. You repeatedly cite the lack of convictions to support your position that Zimmerman has not done anything wrong. (You intentionally ignore the diversionary program for the assault charge.) When it's pointed out that the woman who you believe filed a false report also was not convicted, you shift your standard. Suddenly, the absence of a conviction is not proof of innocence; it's because there's a conspiracy.

    Of course. But there's a difference with a Temporary Restraining Order and getting arrested. I know plenty of instances where TROs were issued on false information. However, when the information is false, the men who are affected generally do not get arrested. While it's an unfair burden, they understand they need to make sure they don't provide the police with an excuse to arrest them.

    You have reading comprehension problems. I specifically said the woman recanted her story about the wine bottle. I also said the women refused to cooperate with the prosecutors. That means the women are not standing behind their stories.

    While you feel that is proof nothing ever happened and that the women made up their stories, I believe it is more likely that the women are lying about what happened (or did not happen) when they refused to cooperate with prosecutors. This is a matter of opinion. We disagree. Get over it.

    You don't have to suffer physical injury to be the victim. If someone takes a shot at you and misses, that person still has committed a crime. Your lack of physical injury does not mean the person should be walking free.

    As for trying to find daylight between pointing a shotgun at a person and not physically injuring them, that's not an argument I'm going to entertain. If you point a gun at your girlfriend because you're mad at her, you don't get a pat on the back for not physically injuring her. You're already way over the line.

    I never said George was a psychopathic abuser. I think he makes bad decisions. I believe he has problems managing his temper. We all have bad days, but it seems to be more than that with him. At this point, he has a pattern of conduct that suggests he knows how to dance on the line. He knows how to push buttons and avoid criminal prosecution.

    As for why the women have recanted, we've been over this. People who are in dysfunctional relationships do things that seem odd. It really doesn't take much for a person to recant. Person A feels sorry for Person B and decides to pull the punch by refusing to cooperate with the police and prosecutors. It's a common story.

    While these women have separated from George, sometimes a person will recant so the other person will be free to be with them and that allows the two to repeat the cycle. Just because a person recants, it doesn't mean that the initial claim must have been a lie. That said, it does undermine the person's credibility. We don't know if the person was lying then or if the person is lying now.

    -You're acting like a little girl whose favorite boy band is being insulted.

    Stop. Take a breath. Go back to my first post in this thread. I said I thought George was making bad decisions and that he was on a bad trajectory. That's an opinion, my opinion. I'm entitled to believe George is at least partly responsible for his continuing troubles. You are free to disagree.

    Complaining about internet handles is insane. Almost every forum member is using some sort of screen name. It comes with the territory and usually the handle has meaning to the person who is using it. If MSNBC, CNN, or Fox want to hire me to go on camera, use my name, and say that I believe George has made bad decisions, great! I'd love to make big money just spouting my opinions. That would be awesome! Sadly, I don't think they're going to give me a podium.

    I don't understand how you think I am not standing behind what I said initially. When you claimed I was being inaccurate and had exaggerated George's multiple arrests, I clarified the arrests I mentioned. You're one who initially thought I was referring to the woman with the restraining order. It's not my fault that you believed that. There was nothing in my first post about a restraining order. It's also not my fault that you continue to ignore what George had to do to avoid a conviction for assault on the liquor control officer. In your mind, somehow going through a pretrial diversionary program has become proof that George was innocent when it's really an acknowledgement he did something wrong and he had to go through the program or face more serious consequences.

    Why are you taking this all so personally? I have not attacked you. I have expressed my belief that George Zimmerman is not doing a good job of staying out of trouble. It makes me wonder why you identify with George so strongly. Do you have a lot of bad interactions with the police? Are women continually seeking restraining orders against you? Do you feel there's a conspiracy to get you?

    Honestly, as an adult, you should be able to go about your life without getting upset that some people think George is making poor decisions in his life.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
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  20. JamesRL

    JamesRL Beaverton Active Member

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    As far as the Trayvon Martin shooting, George Zimmerman was within his rights to follow Mr. Martin and, when attacked, to defend himself with deadly force.

    However, that doesn't mean that Mr. Zimmerman didn't make some poor choices that night. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should - even if it is perfectly legal. It was a poor decision to follow Trayvon Martin on foot, as the subsequent events proved. In fact, he's shown a continuing tendency to make poor choices, especially for someone who knows (or should know) that he's in the media crosshairs.

    Whether or not this latest incident is an example of Mr. Zimmerman's poor decision-making skills or not, he clearly needs to "up his game" so that he can stop getting into situations like this. There are a lot of people in the country who would like to see him dead or in prison, so he needs to play things extra carefully.

    I don't see Mr. Zimmerman as a "bad" man - he's just someone who made some poor choices and now has the country breathing down his neck, critiquing his every move. It's unlikely that his decision-making will improve; in fact, it's likely to deteriorate as he comes under more scrutiny and is stressed more. Although I wish him only good, I fear he will come to a bad end.


    Jim
     
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