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RedCardinalSeven

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Judging from the longer video, it sure looks like a likely legitimate self-defense to me. It seems the shooter, Nikolas Fernandez, is being thrown under the bus by his union, Iron Workers Local 86. Seattle PD Chief says she doesn't know all the facts but weighed-in against the suspect all the same. Richard Silverstein hyperventilates over the alleged attempted "mass murder" and provides some photos that he claims came from Fernandez's Instagram page. We know Fernandez is a bad man because he identifies as "human", wears camo, and "has what is called a 'jungle style' magazine in his gun ..."
 
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it looked to me like the protesters were trying to stop someone from endangering innocent folks with a vehicle. Someone who intentionally drove there, and intentionally brought enough ammo to 'defend' himself from as many folks as possible.

Guess it all depends on your perspective.

If someone drove at a group of cops like that, who were telling the driver to stop, they would most likely get shot.
 
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At some point this was going to happen, I mean watch all the vids of protestors smashing cars and trying to pull people out to be beat on by a group of individuals. This is the not the last time we will see this and I hope it legally happens more because these criminals need to learn a lesson., To me it looks like its a threat to his safety and I have no problem with him using deadly force.
 
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At some point this was going to happen, I mean watch all the vids of protestors smashing cars and trying to pull people out to be beat on by a group of individuals. This is the not the last time we will see this and I hope it legally happens more because these criminals need to learn a lesson., To me it looks like its a threat to his safety and I have no problem with him using deadly force.
I have been VERY surprised this has not happened more and far worse. When they for days let the Mobs just do as they pleased they got real bold. I kept waiting for some mob to descend on the wrong vehicle or home. Lot of small business people live at the place they work. Try to torch the business and they are trying to burn the place people live. If they do not control this someone will just open up on the people trying to toss fire at them. Someone will get to see what happens when you bring a Molotov Cocktail to a gun fight. :cool:
 

RedCardinalSeven

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it looked to me like the protesters were trying to stop someone from endangering innocent folks with a vehicle. Someone who intentionally drove there, and intentionally brought enough ammo to 'defend' himself from as many folks as possible.

Guess it all depends on your perspective.

If someone drove at a group of cops like that, who were telling the driver to stop, they would most likely get shot.

In the longer video on Twitter, I don't see any clear danger to protesters until after they start attacking him and his vehicle. It is then that he briefly appears to accelerate before coming to a complete stop without ever striking anyone with his car. If he had intended to mow people down then he had ample opportunity to do so. He also had ample opportunity to shoot plenty of people. That he didn't do either of those things speaks volume.

If you're bearing arms for self-defense then why wouldn't you bring "enough ammo"? He apparently only fired one shot. Are you suggesting he should only have one bullet or none or what?

The video evidence demonstrates he wasn't driving "at" anyone. He stayed in the middle of the road. Moreover, unlike cops, protesters don't have any authority to tell law-abiding citizens who are safely and legally operating their vehicles in a public thoroughfare to stop.

Since he's been identified in the media as a member of the ironworkers union I'd speculate that he may have been leaving a nearby construction site when he inadvertently encountered the protesters. Had he not been armed it's pretty clear he would have been in serious jeopardy from the crowd that swarmed his car after he stopped.
 
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awshoot

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...
Since he's been identified in the media as a member of the ironworkers union I'd speculate that he may have been leaving a nearby construction site when he inadvertently encountered the protesters. Had he not been armed it's pretty clear he would have been in serious jeopardy from the crowd that swarmed his car after he stopped.

Good post and I agree with all of it. For clarification, he was on his way to work a security gig at a Nike store. Considering all the looting, and that Nike is extra-lootable, that fact I think completely explains why he had sufficient ammo and a firearm.
 

Lasers

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This is going to be a tough one. If I was standing there, I'd have assumed he was going to use his vehicle to mow down protesters. Tough to figure out why else he'd be driving towards the crowd of people. If I were him and not trying to hurt people, I'd have just turned around well before the crowd.

Isolating the guy trying to pull him from the vehicle, him firing a single shot (then it looks like he mag swaps to an extended mag?) and runs for the cops... Sounds like he didn't intend to hurt anyone at all, defended him self with as little force as possible and retreated quickly.

I'm glad the guy he shot is OK, I'm guessing he thought he was doing the right thing at the time, trying to save the crowd

I'm glad the shooter is OK, I'm guessing he made a wrong turn and got scared, accelerated in a way that gave everyone around a fear of immediate danger, defended himself and turned himself in.

Is it possible no one had criminal intent and this ends here?
 

awshoot

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This is going to be a tough one. If I was standing there, I'd have assumed he was going to use his vehicle to mow down protesters. Tough to figure out why else he'd be driving towards the crowd of people. If I were him and not trying to hurt people, I'd have just turned around well before the crowd.
...

Most people in the crowd notice what is going on partway through Gregory's assault on Fernandez, assume Gregory is the good guy, and would make a terrible mistake intervening here as a 3d party defender because they would be defending the initial aggressor.

I've watched many videos very closely including the video where he turns onto the street (*). Once he turns, there are makeshift barriers behind him making reversing complicated. As soon as he has turned onto the street, that's when Gregory drops his hot dog and tries to grab the wheel through the window. Fernandez then accelerates forward through an empty space on the street to get away from Gregory who is assaulting him, but quickly comes up on the thicker crowd where he intentionally avoids hitting them. This allows Gregory to catch up and start beating him while ten or more people surround his stopped car and some start trying to break the windows in the back and passenger side. He shoots Gregory, the crowd around his car dissipates, and literally 60 seconds later he is standing in front of the police line with his hands up where he is taken into custody.

(*) This was a bad decision but it wasn't illegal.
 

Lasers

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I've watched many videos very closely including the video where he turns onto the street (*). Once he turns, there are makeshift barriers behind him making reversing complicated. As soon as he has turned onto the street, that's when Gregory drops his hot dog and tries to grab the wheel through the window.

Link?

How he gets on to the street might make an impact to me if I was a juror. If he intentfully drove around barriers towards the crowd vs he just made a wrong turn.
 

shibbershabber

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He had every right to be there... On some level so do the protesters.

When they began aggressively surrounding his car and seemingly blocking all exit... THEY ceased to have a right to be there.

Forcing your way into a car to assault someone is good enough reason to catch a bullet.

The fact that he stopped driving when it was clear that the people would not move, plus the fact that after the incident he immediately surrendered himself to police goes a long way towards showing that he didnt intend to harm anyone. Afterall, if that were his intention, WHY would he just fire one shot and turn himself in/... and not just blast through the crowd?


There is absolutely NO question in this one.
 

awshoot

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Link?

How he gets on to the street might make an impact to me if I was a juror. If he intentfully drove around barriers towards the crowd vs he just made a wrong turn.

Some stuff I posted elsewhere:

Some screenshots from this video (which is easily right-click-download): https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1269839663834914816/pu/vid/1280x720/jYCB2xZ7THnfqgwP.mp4?tag=10

Pic 1: first clear image of car and guy who got shot ("GWGS").
Pic 2: GWGS is in the car window.
pic 3: stuff being thrown at car, GWGS still in window.
pic 4: Item hits car, driver speeds up, GWGS loses grip on driver.
pic5: Barrier thrown up in front of car, car clearly hard braking (the collision with the barrier happens while he is stopping and the barrier is being pushed forward), GWGS arms are in and out of the car multiple times in fast succession -- looks like punching and grabbing.
pic6: The gunshot moment, I counted at least ten people touching the car and in the video you can see the car is being beaten by some of those surrounding it.

As for the arrest, there is a span of 47 seconds from the time of the shot until he is up to the front of the line of protesters. if you pick up where that video above cuts off by watching the one linked here: Washington - Driver shoots protestor in Seattle you get another 13s to the point he is right in front of the riot police with his hands up where he is arrested seconds later. It took the guy literally one minute to get to the police and turn himself in -- he clearly wasn't trying to cause mayhem or escape responsibility after the shooting.

What we don't know is what happened before Pic 1, and how he got there. One hopes there is store surveillance video to illuminate those preceding events.


657613-29066f22664d8d7d06d9ba5740166ea6.jpg
pic2-jpg.707933


pic3-jpg.707932

pic4-jpg.707929
pic5-jpg.707931
pic6-jpg.707930
 

asiparks

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Unfortunate choice of the driver to drive towards a crowd, instead of finding an alternative route.
My assumption was that the guy grabbing the wheel assumed that the driver may have been intent on maliciously driving into the crowd- not unreasonable- Driver felt life was in danger and defended himself- turned himself straight in- good.

I don't think there was a "bad guy" in this unfortunate situation. The driver could have made a better choice than to drive toward the crowd.
I think my assuption too, had I been on the ground, would be " S**t, that man's driving into the crowd !" -You don't have the benefit of seeing the ariel view, the prior minutes- you just hear/see the car in it's present moment and react.
If i was the driver, I would think "S***, this mob is going to kill me, I have to get out of here" and I would defend myself.
 

awshoot

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True, but again, we have the luxury of more information with hindsight. People react based on the immediate information available in that second.

The problem with mob situations is that those in the mob and those outside it are all on a hair trigger. Avoid them if at all possible. It's a no win situation.

EDIT: it would be a strange thing to convict a man based on an assaulter's false impression.
 

asiparks

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The problem with mob situations is that those in the mob and those outside it are all on a hair trigger. Avoid them if at all possible. It's a no win situation.

EDIT: it would be a strange thing to convict a man based on an assaulter's false impression.

Agreed on both. Nailing the intentions of both parties is key. I would be suprised if Fernadez, given his behavior afterwards, goes down. I think the judge, in lowering bail, recognizes that. The charges might get dropped.
 
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