Who is to say what gouging is

[Lennie]

Trivia note. Lake City currently produces 1,460,000,000 rounds of rifle ammo per year or 4,000,000 rounds per day. They have the ability to produce more than that.

CCI makes over 4,000,000 rounds of 22 ammo every single day of the year. It's hard to find accurate daily production number on handgun ammo but it is rumored to also in the millions.

To put CCi 22 ammo production in perspective, they only make enough to ship 841 rounds per day to each Walmart store in the USA.

As a unit of Vista, Federal contributes about $19 million in annual sales to the Vista Group. If the Vista group has a backlog of $1 billion orders.....there is a giant amount of catching to do.

In 2019, ammunition sales were about 33 rounds per American. With only a slight increase in demand, demand easily outstripped production.

 

[billdeserthills]

I still have a pile of ammo left after closing my gunshop years ago. When people want to buy my ammo I let them know that the price is based upon what it will cost me to replace that ammo. Quoted a guy .65 a round today for 32acp, fact is I really don't care to sell my stuff-- I'm saving it for later

 

[TTSX]

Ammo is a lot more expensive than I'd like but I'll still pay for it if I want. The only gouging I've seen is an LGS who upped their prices essentially because they could and giving it to their long time customers no lube, all while expecting a thankyou. I understand costs going up but telling a customer their face that they weren't up because "why not." I look at guns I've bought from them shamefully as I supported greed.

I would never call any prices online gouging, though. They have an entire country to sell to, not just the local good ol boys.

 

[BanjoGeek]

I will weigh in only to say that last summer I was selling primers for $30K. Is there anyone willing to do that now?

 

[Lennie]

Ammo is a lot more expensive than I'd like but I'll still pay for it if I want. The only gouging I've seen is an LGS who upped their prices essentially because they could and giving it to their long time customers no lube, all while expecting a thankyou. I understand costs going up but telling a customer their face that they weren't up because "why not." I look at guns I've bought from them shamefully as I supported greed.

I would never call any prices online gouging, though. They have an entire country to sell to, not just the local good ol boys.

As a past business owner, this is a tough position to be in. When I did consulting, the advice was to make sure your inventory was sufficiently priced to recover enough capital to replace it. If the cost of inventory doubles and you fail to increase your retail price, you end up with half as much inventory.

The other downside is holding inventory with declining retail market prices. This situation can rob the capital it takes to run a retail operation.

 

[po18guy]

At $9.99/50, no one has any. Double that, still no one. Triple and so on. Demand, demand, demand is driving everything. Cash customers are lining up. It is in essence a bidding war. The eBay of ammunition. Check the principles:

3.3 Demand, Supply, and Equilibrium – Principles of Economics

open.lib.umn.edu

 

[Yotehunt]

Who's fault is it that folks didn't stack deep everything they could when the prices were low and the availability of products was unlimited.
It's not like this hasn't happened before.

Yours?

 

[TTSX]

Yours?

Yeah, it's his fault. GIT 'IM!!!!

 

[Yotehunt]

Yeah, it's his fault. GIT 'IM!!!!

 

[American123]

Generally speaking, the people who want something they don't have, at a price they can't get it at, throw out the term "price gouging."

 

[P7M13]

I will weigh in only to say that last summer I was selling primers for $30K. Is there anyone willing to do that now?

Doubt it, but if you have any more, I'll haul azz down to your place at that price...

 

[msgriff]

My biggest concern would be the lack of basic raw materials for the mfg's to make components and ammo. Price and availability will eventually stabilize unless that happens. Things like the fact that the USA hasn't had a lead smelter since 2013 or so is a bit troubling, and I'm sure that also applies to other raw materials.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Mental exercise;

I was at my friend's gun shop last week and he got in some .380ACP ammo. 200-round boxes of basic ball ammo, equivalent to Winchester white box. He priced them at $98 each, the factory's list price, which is equal to $24.50/box of 50, almost double what it was less than a year ago.

Answer this question: Is he gouging at that price??

Now the facts; that box of ammo cost him $89, so his markup is $9, equal to $2.25/box of 50 and less than 10%. That is fewer dollars and much lower percentage than he was making when he had .380 to sell at $13.00/box of 50.
He used to spend his ammo-shopping time trying to find the best deal for himself and therefore his customers. Now he spends even more of his time trying to find someone with ammo to sell at all and whatever the cost.
So more time and capital invested in a product with a return-on-investment that doesn't justify having it on the shelf. He does it to generate traffic and to at least have some ammo to sell.

Now again, is he gouging??

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Mental exercise;

I was at my friend's gun shop last week and he got in some .380ACP ammo. 200-round boxes of basic ball ammo, equivalent to Winchester white box. He priced them at $98 each, the factory's list price, which is equal to $24.50/box of 50, almost double what it was less than a year ago.

Answer this question: Is he gouging at that price??

Now the facts; that box of ammo cost him $89, so his markup is $9, equal to $2.25/box of 50 and less than 10%. That is fewer dollars and much lower percentage than he was making when he had .380 to sell at $13.00/box of 50.
He used to spend his ammo-shopping time trying to find the best deal for himself and therefore his customers. Now he spends even more of his time trying to find someone with ammo to sell at all and whatever the cost.
So more time and capital invested in a product with a return-on-investment that doesn't justify having it on the shelf. He does it to generate traffic and to at least have some ammo to sell.

Now again, is he gouging??

Does he have any left?

 

[arakboss]

Mental exercise;

I was at my friend's gun shop last week and he got in some .380ACP ammo. 200-round boxes of basic ball ammo, equivalent to Winchester white box. He priced them at $98 each, the factory's list price, which is equal to $24.50/box of 50, almost double what it was less than a year ago.

Answer this question: Is he gouging at that price??

Now the facts; that box of ammo cost him $89, so his markup is $9, equal to $2.25/box of 50 and less than 10%. That is fewer dollars and much lower percentage than he was making when he had .380 to sell at $13.00/box of 50.
He used to spend his ammo-shopping time trying to find the best deal for himself and therefore his customers. Now he spends even more of his time trying to find someone with ammo to sell at all and whatever the cost.
So more time and capital invested in a product with a return-on-investment that doesn't justify having it on the shelf. He does it to generate traffic and to at least have some ammo to sell.

Now again, is he gouging??

Nope, he is not. Some people don't like free markets. I am starting to wonder if some want the government to take over ammo sales too, along with power companies and health care. It's little wonder the election went the way it did. Independence is becoming a lost art.

 

[Ringo]

IF I WAS A DEMOCRAT, I WOULD SAY FOR SURE SAY IT WOULD BE ME !!!

LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR... I'M FLIPPING NOT !!!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Actions speak louder than words.
Anything else is cheaper than dirt.

 

[arakboss]

I can tell you the price gouging by members on the site has me furious. As long as NorthwestFirearms.com allows it the problem will only get worse. Currently we have retailers that are receiving shipments only to sale them on the classifieds here for 5 times markup. And if it's not them it's just some jerkoff who has no intention of using the products themselves. I am personally unsure if I will continue to renew my small membership here if this continues much longer. If a firearm website cares about the shooting community they will not let these cancerous members abuse the rest of us. That is the end of my rant and I am a supporter of capitalism but this is a RIGGED game we are playing at the moment.

Assuming NWFA bought into socialist/communistic types of price controls, can you imagine the increased workload the mods would be handling. Everytime somebody didn't like a price and they reported the member, the mods would have to look at it. Policing the threadcrapping from the whiners must take an already substantial amount of their time. Trying to enforce price control rules would be rediculous. I am sorry you don't get more out of the NWFA site than classified listings.

 

[Mrcorpuz360]

I remember when I could walk in to Northwest Armory and walk out with a case of 9mm for 149 bucks!! I wish I would have stocked up then. But I would put it all down range in less then a couple months. Haha that was fun and those were the days. No o have to hold on to everything and buy at the expensive prices. It is like the sneaker game, get lucky and get a couple exclusive pairs and sell them for triple the price. At the end of the day it's in your hands you get to determine the price!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

To steal and paraphrase a infamous definition :
I don't know what gouging is....but I know it when I see it.

I know how much I am willing to pay for something...
If its a private sale and the listed price is within that limit....I'll buy it.
If not , I may make a offer.

If its a retail store...If I find the price acceptable to my needs or wants...then I'll buy it.

As far as folks here in our classifieds...
I have seen good deals here ...along with many prices that I think are just taking advantage of our current situation.

I have also seen things like certain ammo , that was posted in the "Good Deals" section , only to be offered up for sale here , at twice the price or more....

My suggestion for private sales...
If you see someone "gouging" , then don't buy from them.

It is not up to me or anyone else to say what is gouging.
That definition , will vary with each individual's needs , wants , ability and willingness to pay.
Andy