Which progressive?

[mgd]

PM me if you are going to buy a progressive press. I can save you a few bucks.

David

 

[Crohnos01]

Pm sent!

 

[majorsmackdown]

my first press was the hornady lock and load ap. I loved it until I got the casefeeder. You need to mount it solid as hell to keep the casefeeder from rocking around and causing issues. Adjusting all the fittings and crap to change calibers was a pain when using the casefeeder. It was an excellent machine for pistol calibers and .223 (all I loaded) when manual case feeding. Being able to pull a shell out of any location easily was nice. The lock'n'load bushings make caliber changes super fast. Some like the "feel" of forward press to install primers. Machine comes with the stuff to do small and large primers. The machine needs a tune up, some chamfering on the primer slide parts, and other things I've forgotten - and it'll run smoothly and nicely.

If I had it to do over again I think I'd start with the dillon 650. If I had, I might never have upgraded.... and if the budget was fat enough - go for the dillon 1050. Dillon's casefeeders work awesome, with ultra low fuss.

If you know you'll be doing enough reloading to justify the cost, I'd recommend the Dillon 1050. Easily adjust primer seating pressure, nice big handle for easy leverage, great casefeeder, allows in press swaging of military brass, I like the dillon powder measure much better than the hornady (after doing the mods to get rid of the "fail safe") - powder measure expander is standard and saves a die position, 6 die stations. Buy once cry once...

Good luck, probably not an easy decision.

 

[Crohnos01]

Well I have a little more time to decide I guess.. I have been wanting a GP100 for about 8 years now and one of the members here put one up I just couldn't say no too... so I had to raid the progressive piggy bank for a new toy.... Man I love shooting that gun though!... Of course that has exacerbated my original problem.... I just shot in one evening 2/3rds of what it took 3 evenings to load.... this is going to be a problem

I am leaning towards the Dillon 650 mostly because of the reportedly "no muss, no fuss" reputation, but the other night I was talking to two different guys at the range that said they spent hours tweaking their 650 to get them to run right, including cutting the spring on the shell plate holder detent to keep powder from being tossed out of the cases during rotation.... that sounds like the same issues I read about with the Hornady LNL progressive.... If I am going to have to deal with tweaks no matter what, the the Hornady would be the answer because I have enough Cabela's point to buy the whole thing for under $100.... But... yeah..... now I am really confused on what to do...
I really only want to do this once is the only thing I know for sure....

 

[majorsmackdown]

You can improve anything, and they all can use tweaks. Your pace and manual dwell (and of course how full of powder) will affect how much powder is spilled. They all click into positions and jiggle cases a little. I wouldn't let that worry you.

I forgot to mention that I think the hornady is probably the best bang for the buck. I like the red color too.

 

[MrElectric03]

I now own two 650s. You have to know how to use them just like any other peice of equipment.

As for the detent, I've learned to grab the next bullet with my left as I'm pushing the handle down with my right. By the time the plate indexes my hand is there and I use my little finger to soften the stop. It comes naturally somewhere around the 50th round. You can also try the multitude of upgrades like the low mass detent ball and shellplate bearing. I've had my eyes on the but have yet to spend the $30 for the kit with the with the roller casefeed rod.

The 650 is a far better press and from my dealings with both companies Hornady can't even dream to have the product support that Dillon shells out every day.

 

[Tilos]

Well I have a little more time to decide I guess.. I have been wanting a GP100 for about 8 years now and one of the members here put one up I just couldn't say no too... so I had to raid the progressive piggy bank for a new toy.... Man I love shooting that gun though!... Of course that has exacerbated my original problem.... I just shot in one evening 2/3rds of what it took 3 evenings to load.... this is going to be a problem

I am leaning towards the Dillon 650 mostly because of the reportedly "no muss, no fuss" reputation, but the other night I was talking to two different guys at the range that said they spent hours tweaking their 650 to get them to run right, including cutting the spring on the shell plate holder detent to keep powder from being tossed out of the cases during rotation.... that sounds like the same issues I read about with the Hornady LNL progressive.... If I am going to have to deal with tweaks no matter what, the the Hornady would be the answer because I have enough Cabela's point to buy the whole thing for under $100.... But... yeah..... now I am really confused on what to do...
I really only want to do this once is the only thing I know for sure....

That detent spring shortening often accompanied with the install of a nylon ball is standard operating procedure on every progressive.
I guy even sells a "kit" on ebay, pricey though:
RCBS Pro 2000 Buffer detent Ball & Spring upgrade ---Takes the snap out!---
I bought a pack of nylon ball bearings and got the springs locally.
These balls:
3/8" Polypropylene Ball Grade 2 Solid Plastic Sphere (25) J32008 | eBay
Yes, you get 25 balls...

I'm confused sometimes by reloaders whining about having to tweak/tune a press but yet always do a complete tear down of a new gun, stoning this and that/changing springs and doing a fluff and buff as a standard requirement.
jmo

 

[majorsmackdown]

I think some people just expect it to work out the box. But tweaking is SOP

 

[zeppelin]

I have a Dillon 550B that I have had for about 25 years. It still works great and is plenty fast to suit me (around 300 rounds per hour once you get your rythm going). A plus for Dillon is if you have parts wear out, get lost etc, they will send you a new one for free (absolutely free, they even pay shipping).

 

[B5Ben]

I have a LNL AP and really like it. I went from no reloading experience to a progressive because I didn't want to start over again when I grew out of a single stage. It did have a learning curve, and it continues to this day, but if I am doing what I'm supposed to do it does it's job. Loads nice cases and I really like the bushing feature and the powder measure is pretty good. I do recommend the precision adjustment micrometer change though. It really tightened up the consistency of the powder charge. Kinda bugs me that it didn't come with it as new now that I think about it. I don't have the case loader or bullet feeder so my efficiency is down, but I don't mind loading each by hand. Kinda gives me a little more satisfaction that way. Enjoy the hunt of the reloads that fits you and your GP100!

 

[Crohnos01]

Thanks everyone for your input... I feel like I have talked to a lot of folks both through this forum and in person. Here is what I have come up with as my conclusions:

• Dillon 650 and Hornady are both top end machine and arguably rival each other for quality construction and quality reloads produced.
• There are pluses and minuses to each machine. The 650 seems to trump the LNL on the priming system, but the LNL has a better powder delivery system especially for flake powders.
• The 650 is really designed to operate with a case feeder and running it without one is in the words of one reviewer "silly". The LNL on the other hand can be run effectively with or without a case feeder. The cost of a case feeder for the LNL is higher than that of the Dillon, but that seems to be because some of the lower assembly of the Dillon Case Feeder comes with the base machine whereas the LNL it does not.
• Caliber changes on the Dillon are both more expensive and take longer than the LNL.
• The Dillon drops powder at the back of the press rotation making it difficult to visually inspect the powder level in the case whereas the LNL drops its powder charge on the front of the station near the operator, making visual inspection easier.
• The Dillon caliber changes are best effective using toolhead replacements. This requires a fair amount of space to store currently unused toolhead and in many cases powder measures as people don't like messing with the powder measure setup between toolheads.
• Contrary to my initial impression, the Dillon does not just operate out of the box. Both machines require setup tweaking and continued adjustments here and there through the reloading process.

So after weighing the pros and cons, and knowing that I need to reload for at least 3 calibers in a confined space, I am going to pull the trigger on a LNL. This conclusion really rather surprised me as I have always wanted a Dillon... They have the no B.S. warranty, and everyone loves them. However at least one reviewer noted that while Dillon is/was good, they are beginning to loose market share to Hornady due to continued innovation by Hornady while Dillon seems to be resting on their laurels and pursuing gun development. The icing on the cake for me is that I can get the LNL from Cabelas and with my accumulation of Cabelas points, bring the out of pocket cost down to around 150 bucks for the press, extra primer tubes, and caliber conversions. At least initially, I don't plan on a case feeder, so that also factors into my decision....

Let the hate mail from the Dillon fans commence!

 

[B5Ben]

Look for sales and on Amazon. I saw a LNL AP for under $400 less than two weeks ago which made me cringe!

 

[Tilos]

I have a LNL AP and really like it. I went from no reloading experience to a progressive because I didn't want to start over again when I grew out of a single stage. It did have a learning curve, and it continues to this day, but if I am doing what I'm supposed to do it does it's job. Loads nice cases and I really like the bushing feature and the powder measure is pretty good. I do recommend the precision adjustment micrometer change though. It really tightened up the consistency of the powder charge. Kinda bugs me that it didn't come with it as new now that I think about it. I don't have the case loader or bullet feeder so my efficiency is down, but I don't mind loading each by hand. Kinda gives me a little more satisfaction that way. Enjoy the hunt of the reloads that fits you and your GP100!

Too late to be of help for you, but I use a dial caliper for returning to a powder measure setting, rather than a micrometer spindle

Cheers,

 

[MrElectric03]

Hey with the cost difference out of pocket can't argue much...however....

1)many have switched from LNL to 650 and can attest how much they are not quite the same level. Not sure I've ever heard of one switching from a 650 to LNL.

2)I have loaded many powders through my presses including the ever complained about 800x flake powder and even weighing every case never saw over .1gn spread.

3)With the 650 you can fill the casefeed tube with 10-15 cases at a time, have your kid drop them in while you load, or even rig up a lee revolver case feed deal. Seems faster to me but real quick you will pay that $220 for the casefeeder.

4)Many complain about the time it takes to change calibers on a 650 and I laugh every time I read them. Not swapping primer sizes it's a 7 minute job, and I'm being generously slow there. Swapping small to large primers takes another 5-6 minutes or you can pay a bit more for a complete primer change and the swap takes 2-3 minutes.

5) XL 650 charges at station 2, directly in front of the operator. If you use the powder check the rod which sits right in your face tells you how close you are to your setting. Not to mention the buzzer that lets you know if it's abnormally high or low. 1050 charges at the back, maybe that's what you are thinking of.

6) Toolhead do take storage. In the reloading bench picture thread toward the end you can see my home built rack. As for powder measures I keep one powder measure with large dropper (.44 mag only for now) and the other is swapped between calibers and adjusted each time. You can save time by installing the unique tech micrometer. I'd like one but haven't pulled the handle yet.

7) I own two 650s, both operated flawlessly out of the box. Only time you do anything that changes its adjustment is if you really clean it and remove the shell plate deck, most say do so every 100,000 rounds. And Dillon will supply the tool for re-alignment, takes a couple minutes to properly align it.

Like I said I tried many presses and have friends with LNLs still and help Load on them from time to time. I just want to make sure to put it all out there. If others have complained about the 650 to make you question them maybe I got luckier in my 5 years and two machines, its possible. Hard to beat a progressive press for the money you would have into the LNL, but if you are anything like me cabelas has walls and display cases FULL of stuff for me to spend gift cards on.

 

[fxdc]

Too late to be of help for you, but I use a dial caliper for returning to a powder measure setting, rather than a micrometer spindle
View attachment 339570
Cheers,

Me to ....... for years!

 

[Crohnos01]

Hey with the cost difference out of pocket can't argue much...however....

1)many have switched from LNL to 650 and can attest how much they are not quite the same level. Not sure I've ever heard of one switching from a 650 to LNL.
.

Perhaps; although I read several reviews done by guys who bought Lee, Hornady, and Dillon with the idea that they would sell the ones they decided not to use, and they kept the LNL.

2)I have loaded many powders through my presses including the ever complained about 800x flake powder and even weighing every case never saw over .1gn spread.

There seems to be a real mixed bag of results on the Dillon powder system... They are very accurate by all accounts, but there were several folks that complained about them "leaking" powder and/or flake powder "bridging" across the chamber causing no powder to drop... Obviously I don't know as I have no personal experience on either at this point; I can only go on what I have read.

3)With the 650 you can fill the casefeed tube with 10-15 cases at a time, have your kid drop them in while you load, or even rig up a lee revolver case feed deal. Seems faster to me but real quick you will pay that $220 for the casefeeder.

lol... yeah; unless those cases are wearing a skirt in a bar, my kid isn't going to be interested.

5) XL 650 charges at station 2, directly in front of the operator. If you use the powder check the rod which sits right in your face tells you how close you are to your setting. Not to mention the buzzer that lets you know if it's abnormally high or low. 1050 charges at the back, maybe that's what you are thinking of.

The Dillon powder fail safe is definitely one of the things Dillon has going for it.... However, I am not proud.... I can buy the Dillon powder fail safe device and install it on the LNL

6) Toolhead do take storage. In the reloading bench picture thread toward the end you can see my home built rack. As for powder measures I keep one powder measure with large dropper (.44 mag only for now) and the other is swapped between calibers and adjusted each time. You can save time by installing the unique tech micrometer. I'd like one but haven't pulled the handle yet.

I went back and looked at your reloading bench photo... very nice and I like the storage rack you have... Unfortunately, your storage rack would occupy about 2/3rds of the area I have to work with for reloading.

7) I own two 650s, both operated flawlessly out of the box. Only time you do anything that changes its adjustment is if you really clean it and remove the shell plate deck, most say do so every 100,000 rounds. And Dillon will supply the tool for re-alignment, takes a couple minutes to properly align it.

You are in the minority from those I have talked to and read reviews from if you pulled the presses out of the box, fitted them together, and took off reloading without having issues. The last guy I talked to was having real problems with powder spillage on his 650 because of the tendency of the 650 to over-index and then snap back into position causing him to spill powder on the shell plate. He ended up ordering some nylon detente balls and snipping a coil or two off the detente spring. Others I read about with the same problem used their fingers on the shell plate to create a little extra friction during rotation to keep the cases from spilling powder. Again, I have no first hand experience, and until I started hearing these stories, I was sold on getting a Dillon because that type of troubleshooting is what I wanted to avoid by getting the Dillon. But if I am going to have to screw around with settings and tweak things here and there in either event, then I might as well go with the cheaper option for me. I figure it like this; worst case scenario I use the LNL, decide I don't like it, and put a for sale sign on it to fund a 650. In the meantime, I get away from the drudgery of doing 800 rounds of 38 special on a single stage RC supreme

 

[MrElectric03]

Alright I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were a younger fella and maybe had small kids...grandkids maybe?

Haha, I suppose there are bound to be good and bad presses rolling out of Dillon. There is no perfect press and the 650 is certainly not perfect. Like I said investment wise I can't blame you a bit. Whether or not you end up happy with the LNL and find yourself up my way sometime I'd be happy to give you a chance to load some rounds on mine.

 

[Tilos]

Ford or Chevy...
Good that you could find/read critical info about Dillon.
I thought if you bought a Dillon you had to sign an owner's oath, like Harley owners, that you would never reveal any short comings.


that's a joke,
I've never seen any sales numbers for any reloading equipment companies, but I' willing to bet there's one (or two) that sell more stuff than all the others combined.

 

[fxdc]

Ford or Chevy...
Good that you could find/read critical info about Dillon.
I thought if you bought a Dillon you had to sign an owner's oath, like Harley owners, that you would never reveal any short comings.


that's a joke,
I've never seen any sales numbers for any reloading equipment companies, but I' willing to bet there's one (or two) that sell more stuff than all the others combined.

Huh..... What Harley Oath?

 

[Crohnos01]

Alright I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were a younger fella and maybe had small kids...grandkids maybe?

Haha, I suppose there are bound to be good and bad presses rolling out of Dillon. There is no perfect press and the 650 is certainly not perfect. Like I said investment wise I can't blame you a bit. Whether or not you end up happy with the LNL and find yourself up my way sometime I'd be happy to give you a chance to load some rounds on mine.

Thanks; that's a very generous offer. If I find myself heading that way I may take you up on that. I DO have a grandson that in another year or two might be worth enslaving... er...I mean educating on reloading