Verify Powder Drop on Progressive

[flexifoil21]

For bulk loads, I use a progressive press but I've always worried about the powder drop failing and getting a light/heavy load. I've tried "powder cops" of various forms - mechanical and those with electronic indicators. While they work okay, I've still been worried about getting the powder amount wrong. This is especially a concern for small mouth bottleneck cases - like .223 Rem. I've really wanted a visual inspection - like I do for precision loads. On my single stage press, I can visually check each and every load before seating a bullet. I find this difficult on the progressive press since I have trouble seeing in the case. The attached picture shows my latest attempt to address this concern - it's a commercial borescope/monitor attached to a Hornady Powder Cop body. I had to drill the powder cop out a bit, but it works really well to hold the borescope end. Just thought I'd share in case others are looking for a similar solution.

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[ron]

On my Dillon 550 I can see each powder charge before setting my bullet on the case. I have a UFO
LED light. I can see the powder charge in a 223 or a 9 mm case.

Amazon.com

 

[flexifoil21]

Good to know. I haven't used a Dillon - maybe the visibility challenge is unique to a Hornady LnL press. It may also be a result of mounting mine higher (on an Inline Fab mount) and because of the bullet/case feeders.

 

[zomie]

deleted

 

[Croat]

Powder always my top safety concern. I don't rely on powder drop with the progressive press. Instead I weigh each filled cartridge individually to ensure safe loads (and accuracy). Too exacting for bulk work? Perhaps, but all reloading should be an exacting process for safety, yes? Might want to look at the other NWF thread re: squib rounds for perspective.

 

[P7M13]

I'll weigh out 20-30 charges on the press to see consistency, average and variance.
This sets a window for acceptable charges.
I'll dump it all back in the hopper, then sample every 10th round to make sure its staying within that window.

 

[Hueco]

Seems like having an electronic scale built into the thing under the bullet would be ideal. After the powder has dropped, if the thing isn't weighing what it should, the alarm bells go off.

I can't be the first person thinking of this. Why doesn't it exist?

 

[41mag]

After the powder has dropped, if the thing isn't weighing what it should, the alarm bells go off.

I've pondered about that too. In the Dillon 650 it would take complete redesign of the entire rotary shell plate system. And just when is any electronic scale all that accurate under all typical conditions? I've seen variation of weight reported affected by everything from where the power plug is located to the distance/location of a small fan across the room. So far any change I've ever discovered in my dreams, proves to be incompatible or no real advantage.

So far the Dillon power alert volume monitor device has proven effective enough to be safe for my version of reloading.

 

[Tilos]

Nice job on the bore scope mount.

I have watched vids of progressive reloading showing a case with the proper powder drop taped to the press next to the case just charged.
With that, a visual comparison between the two cases is the check done as verification of the charge, before a bullet is placed.
I have also seen a camera (like the OP's) used to compare the powder amounts.

I have come to understand that weighing a charge is just to verify the volume that the measure is set to, not the end all/absolute.
That, and commercial loaders adjust volume based on a pressure test.

The over concern about a consistent charge has spawned the development of complex drops/electronic scales/etc. to sell to those obsessed with consistent charges by weight.

jmo,
.

 

[dangerranger60]

It took me awhile to trust the powder drops on progressive presses. But I have found that they are pretty accurate for bulk ammo. They have a learning curve, where I learned to keep the hopper over a certain amount of powder, and I learned to work the lever with the same force every time. And I pull a charged case every so often to weigh the charge. I keep the completed rounds separate until I have checked the next charged case. If I'm checking after every 20 cases and I find a shortage or overage, the most I would have to take apart would be 20. You could make that number 10 till you get more comfortable with it. DR

 

[Stomper]

@oremike is a professional loader of commercial bulk ammo…. What say you on the subject, Mister-Mike?

 

[wombatz]

I have only done single stage, so don't have first hand experience, but there is always stuff like this:

Reloading Safety: Powder Check Systems Overview – Ultimate Reloader

ultimatereloader.com

 

[washagonian]

Hand loading is one of the things in life where I find that the following saying is absolutely true:

"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

 

[41mag]

The over concern about a consistent charge has spawned the development of complex drops/electronic scales/etc. to sell to those obsessed with consistent charges by weight

most excellent observation
next is the unsolvable quandary of consistent, uniform lead boolit OAL to 0.01"

 

[oremike]

@oremike is a professional loader of commercial bulk ammo…. What say you on the subject, Mister-Mike?

Thank for the call out. I'll offer what I can here.
First off I don't run automated presses. I pull the lever every time for every round I make. If something doesn't feel or look right I stop and figure out why.
Second In the progressive presses I only use ball powders and case activated powder drops. The ball powders meter extremity well so I trust but verify the powder drops I'm getting. Once I'm sure I randomly check thru out the production run but no more than every 100 rounds. I don't want to have to pull a whole Lot of ammo so if there is an issue it will be in the last 100 rounds I made. I pull the last 100 and fix the problem then start all over again.
I do use a RCBS digital scale and re-calibrate it every morning. I used to double check it with a RCBS manual scale but over time have found that to not be needed.
The above is for straight wall pistol cartridges and that is all I load commercially.
My own personal rifle cartridges are loaded on a Rock-Chucker and I hand weigh every charge to the exact amount. It might take me all day to load 100 rounds.

 

[flexifoil21]

It took me awhile to trust the powder drops on progressive presses. But I have found that they are pretty accurate for bulk ammo. They have a learning curve, where I learned to keep the hopper over a certain amount of powder, and I learned to work the lever with the same force every time. And I pull a charged case every so often to weigh the charge. I keep the completed rounds separate until I have checked the next charged case. If I'm checking after every 20 cases and I find a shortage or overage, the most I would have to take apart would be 20. You could make that number 10 till you get more comfortable with it. DR

Agree - for the most part I trust the powder drop. Some simple housekeeping like you describe can really go a long way. Given that, I've loaded > 1,000 .223 Rem since I installed the camera. In that batch, one round had a low amount of powder - about 2/3rd what it should be. There was no indication in "feel of the press" or otherwise to explain it. With the camera it jumped right out. I pulled the case and verified - dumped it back in the hopper and proceeded. Really glad to be able to visually watch the load.

 

[flexifoil21]

BTW: Another unexpected benefit of the camera is being able to review what you loaded - if you record video to an SD card. There are a few times when I've driven around the block to make sure I closed the garage door when leaving home. The same thing happens (infrequently) when reloading. If I get a feeling something may be off, I can go back and review the video for peace of mind. I've never actually left the garage door open (or found a load problem I missed), but I have had that uneasy feeling a few times.

 

[Tilos]

Another good habit is once you have done a check of powder weight and it passed, EMPTY THE CATCH BIN.
That way if you catch an error in the next check, only the rounds in the bin since the last check are the questionable rounds...not the whole lot!
A good habit if you load several 100 rounds or more in one session.

Another way
I worked in a high-speed production environment.
Instead of emptying the catch bin at every quality check (the machinery ran continuously, even during checks, @200ppm), we would just cover the product in the catch bin with a new/empty plastic bag.
If an error was found the only product to need hand sorting or a visual check were in the top bag.
.
Edit: Sorry for the echo of post #10.

 

[Tilos]

I have only done single stage, so don't have first hand experience, but there is always stuff like this:

Reloading Safety: Powder Check Systems Overview – Ultimate Reloader

ultimatereloader.com

yes, and all those powder check-systems are based on volume, not weight.
just sayin'
.

 

[flexifoil21]

The best powder check I've found is from DAA - https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/daa-magnetic-powder-check . It works well for straight wall cases (pistol) but is finicky on bottle-neck cartridges. I suspect my process going forward will use the DAA device for pistol and the camera for rifle.