Vegas Shooting - Case Closed

[41mag]

yes, peace unto all of us; speculation buffs now are calling in the 'unknown helicopter', again with alleged facts I have no way to check. Maybe those with such experience can find sign of fabrication in today's link from my buddy in Ireland:

Flight records indicate a covert helicopter rooftop EXFIL may have taken place just minutes after the massacre

Are these kinds of reports merely some kind of click bait or actual 'alt-reporting' ? Are any of the host of claims factual or not?
I have no idea, the notion so many sources have so many claims to observations questions the validity of any of them.

I suppose one 'cure' to disagreement over the Vegas issue would be to simply stop posting the interesting links forwarded to me.
Sure. Maybe that's the solution.

 

[Ralgha]

yes, peace unto all of us; speculation buffs now are calling in the 'unknown helicopter', again with alleged facts I have no way to check. Maybe those with such experience can find sign of fabrication in today's link from my buddy in Ireland:

Flight records indicate a covert helicopter rooftop EXFIL may have taken place just minutes after the massacre

Are these kinds of reports merely some kind of click bait or actual 'alt-reporting' ? Are any of the host of claims factual or not?
I have no idea, the notion so many sources have so many claims to observations questions the validity of any of them.

I suppose one 'cure' to disagreement over the Vegas issue would be to simply stop posting the interesting links forwarded to me.
Sure. Maybe that's the solution.

Here are two tips to quickly determine whether aviation analyses such as this one bear so much as a second thought:

1) Did it come from mass media? If yes, then it's wrong.
2) Did it come from anybody else who is not an air traffic controller, pilot, or (maybe) dispatcher? If yes, then it's wrong.

First off, those tracking sites are incredibly unreliable and presenting them as evidence of anything is folly.

Next, WN4119 is NOT its tailnumber, ALL tailnumbers of US registered aircraft start with "N", even Air Force One. WN4119 is simply the IATA form of its callsign. SWA4119 is ICAO, WN4119 is IATA, they're the same thing, and they have absolutely nothing to do with the actual aircraft used.

Finally, if there was a covert helicopter extracting people from that hotel, they wouldn't have turned their transponder on at all, and they damn sure wouldn't have used the code for a commercial flight. That would cause problems with the ATC computers, and it would actually DRAW ATTENTION to it rather than hide it. They would simply have left their transponder off, and flown away. ATC may have seen a primary target on their radar, but a pilot with sufficient knowledge (as I would assume pilots doing such a thing would have) would know what to do to be as inconspicuous as possible. Such as, fly slow and or low to be lost in the ground clutter.

So no, there's nothing to that claim. It's wrong.

 

[308]

I...Me, I'm still waiting for some basic facts.

I agree with everything you posted and I am still waiting for basic facts or reasonable explanations.

• The 28 yr old gal who was outspoken regarding multiple shooters at ground level...she died 4-days later...for some reason
• Many onsite have reported shots at ground level and a strong smell of gunpowder
  
• 200 rounds of 5.56 shot at our hero...the security guard, and no photos of the shredded walls and doors on L32 corridor
• Our hero security guard gets nailed in the leg with a 5.56 round and a couple days later rents a car and drives to Mexico. He is THE eye witness and the Feds let him leave the country
• Our hero the security guard does not meet with any legit news outlets, cancels his meeting with Fox News and then shows up on Ellen with his "Co-Worker/Handler" only to be asked leading questions by Ellen and then lavished with gifts afterwards.
• The Sheriff has his FBI handler standing behind him every time he speaks in public
  
• No photos of brass in the hotel room, however, most crime scenes have all the casings located, marked and documented
• None of the VIP buildings at ground level have bullet holes in the walls facing the alleged shooting position
• None of the VIP buildings at ground level have bullet holes in the windows facing the alleged shooting position
• None of the big tanks in the area have bullet holes
• The acoustical analysis of the audio recorded by the cab driver at the hotel clearly demonstrates a burst of FA and the corresponding echo of those shots. 40 or so seconds later there is another burst of a longer duration at either a much further distance, or possibly from back within the hotel room. This could be explained by the shots coming from two different locations within the same hotel suite, who knows...IMO

All of this is just coincidence for those "people these days desperately want a comfortable answer to these things. They beg for a government approved, sanitized answer so they can go back to watching Monday Night Football and quit worrying about it. When one is provided, no matter how sketchy, they accept it and defend it religiously"

Now, I would be overjoyed to have anyone correct those items listed above so I can knock them off my list of curious things.

 

[41mag]

So no, there's nothing to that claim. It's wrong.

thank you for the clarification Ralgha.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I agree with everything you posted and I am still waiting for basic facts or reasonable explanations.

• The 28 yr old gal who was outspoken regarding multiple shooters at ground level...she died 4-days later...for some reason
• Many onsite have reported shots at ground level and a strong smell of gunpowder
  
• 200 rounds of 5.56 shot at our hero...the security guard, and no photos of the shredded walls and doors on L32 corridor
• Our hero security guard gets nailed in the leg with a 5.56 round and a couple days later rents a car and drives to Mexico. He is THE eye witness and the Feds let him leave the country
• Our hero the security guard does not meet with any legit news outlets, cancels his meeting with Fox News and then shows up on Ellen with his "Co-Worker/Handler" only to be asked leading questions by Ellen and then lavished with gifts afterwards.
• The Sheriff has his FBI handler standing behind him every time he speaks in public
  
• No photos of brass in the hotel room, however, most crime scenes have all the casings located, marked and documented
• None of the VIP buildings at ground level have bullet holes in the walls facing the alleged shooting position
• None of the VIP buildings at ground level have bullet holes in the windows facing the alleged shooting position
• None of the big tanks in the area have bullet holes

All of this is just coincidence for those "people these days desperately want a comfortable answer to these things. They beg for a government approved, sanitized answer so they can go back to watching Monday Night Football and quit worrying about it. When one is provided, no matter how sketchy, they accept it and defend it religiously"

Now, I would be overjoyed to have anyone correct those items listed above so I can knock them off my list of curious things.

If there were shooters on the ground and at the event where are THOSE empty casings? The 28 year old gal is said to have died of an epileptic seizure. It happens.

The security guard is a complete mess. I don't understand his role at all. Everything about him makes no sense.

I thought I heard that there WERE holes in some jet fuel tanks behind the venue.

I'm still short on facts. I'll wait.

 

[41mag]

I'm still short on facts. I'll wait.

agree

 

[308]

The 28 year old gal is said to have died of an epileptic seizure. It happens.

Officially she died of natural causes. Apparently she had some sort of cancer as well.
I didn't realize there was a parking lot right behind the shooting position

 

[etrain16]

I agree with everything you posted and I am still waiting for basic facts or reasonable explanations.

• The 28 yr old gal who was outspoken regarding multiple shooters at ground level...she died 4-days later...for some reason
• Many onsite have reported shots at ground level and a strong smell of gunpowder
  
• 200 rounds of 5.56 shot at our hero...the security guard, and no photos of the shredded walls and doors on L32 corridor
• Our hero security guard gets nailed in the leg with a 5.56 round and a couple days later rents a car and drives to Mexico. He is THE eye witness and the Feds let him leave the country
• Our hero the security guard does not meet with any legit news outlets, cancels his meeting with Fox News and then shows up on Ellen with his "Co-Worker/Handler" only to be asked leading questions by Ellen and then lavished with gifts afterwards.
• The Sheriff has his FBI handler standing behind him every time he speaks in public
  
• No photos of brass in the hotel room, however, most crime scenes have all the casings located, marked and documented
• None of the VIP buildings at ground level have bullet holes in the walls facing the alleged shooting position
• None of the VIP buildings at ground level have bullet holes in the windows facing the alleged shooting position
• None of the big tanks in the area have bullet holes
• The acoustical analysis of the audio recorded by the cab driver at the hotel clearly demonstrates a burst of FA and the corresponding echo of those shots. 40 or so seconds later there is another burst of a longer duration at either a much further distance, or possibly from back within the hotel room. This could be explained by the shots coming from two different locations within the same hotel suite, who knows...IMO

All of this is just coincidence for those "people these days desperately want a comfortable answer to these things. They beg for a government approved, sanitized answer so they can go back to watching Monday Night Football and quit worrying about it. When one is provided, no matter how sketchy, they accept it and defend it religiously"

Now, I would be overjoyed to have anyone correct those items listed above so I can knock them off my list of curious things.

Some good questions that still need answers - if we ever get them. But I wanted to take a stab at one or two:

1. Regarding the security guard going on Ellen. I don't see this as particularly odd, and not necessarily indicative of a conspiracy. What I honestly think (opinion here) went down was the guy was sitting there waiting to start doing his interviews and a producer for the Ellen show got through to him - offering a deal for an exclusive interview. Greed kicks in pretty easily with many folks, and they probably promised to make it well worth his time if he waited. For Ellen, that means huge ratings boost, ad revenue, etc. For the guard, some $$ bonus for having been involved.

Now some may speculate this was an attempt to control the narrative coming out to the public by using Ellen to carefully craft very particular questions. Could be, but honestly the ratings/greed angle makes more sense to me - because it happens all the time.

2. Regarding the photo of the body in the room and the missing cases. I've thought about this a bit too. I watched a POV walk-through video on YT that a previous customer, who had stayed in that very room, had posted a year or two before this shooting. I was quite shocked at how big the room really was. Someone did a narration showing where they thought the window was in that room that he shot through and showed the door that would lead to the adjacent room, where the 2nd window was located. But as to those casings, I have to wonder - in the photos I've seen, I can't see that the body is right next to the window he shot from. If he killed himself, perhaps he didn't do it right at the shooting location, so maybe the cases are there, but out of view from that camera angle? Some have also noted that some AR's can throw rounds forward, rather to the side and rear. If that is the case here, his casings could have gone out the window. Again, just speculation, but it's in the realm of believability.

I agree, there are many questions here. And while I'm not confident we'll ever get the full picture, I am having a hard time getting to the government conspiracy conclusion that some have already arrived at. Mostly because I don't see who benefits from this event. If someone can help me clearly see a solid benefit to a person or group from this event, then maybe I could buy in more easily. As to the slowing of information, that could be for a variety of reasons, from cover up to trying to get the public out of the speculation business while they try and conduct an admittedly very complex investigation.

I continue to wait, see and listen.

 

[Ralgha]

Comments on second video:

1) This guy's trying to tell me that this witness actually had the presence of mind while being shot at to say, "yep that one came from over there, oh, that one was fired on the same plane as I, this one that hit me, yeah that came from right there." Give me a break, he wanted the publicity.

2) The stock stuff. Soros' put options were something like 2% of his bets against various companies in the same filing, and people bet against stocks all the time. All the time. CEOs sell their shares all the time. All the time. Is it curious and a little suspicious? Absolutely. It's not evidence of anything.

The first video actually made some plausible points, the second one was pure FUD.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

While I understand your emotion and you have your opinion, consider the following and although it's a VARIATION of a theme, JUST maybe you'll see some parallels... there's nothing new under the sun.



-Domestic social fabric being shredded, pitting citizen against citizen. "Left vs Right"... check

-Seemingly endless war and the military industrial complex feeding the rich while it buries the "poor"... check.

-The "sexual revolution"... check.

-Civil rights, and "race wars"... check.

-An ever increasingly powerful authoritarian government... check.

-Nation Building abroad... check.

-Domestic terrorist groups causing mayhem... check.

-Killing "godliness" from the National consciousness... check.




Naw, I'm not too far off the mark... if at all. I'm however sincerely sorry if I offended you, but it is what it is.



Peace unto you, Captain O

I graduated from high school in 1965. We were LBJ's cannon fodder. Clinton is exactly what LBJ was. The Republicans are not much different, just more up front about it. We are facing the same pressures against free speech and other personal freedoms that we faced then. I find that *OUR* music from those days addresses what we are facing today pretty well. In those days the "redneck lifers" ran the show at the NCO level. They bought into the phony "patriotism" being sold by the corporatist Democrats and Republicans. We know now that it was all a con game designed to line the pockets of political cronies. What's changed? Nothing. A lot of my high school buddies didn't come home. Those who did got spit on. And for what? In the end we were all swindled, swindled of our youth, our innocence, our loves, and our lives. I came home minus a fiancee. These things were life changing. If you doubt the message of "Apocalypse Now"...don't.

 

[nwslopoke]

Perhaps as various lawsuits emerge more information will be forced out. Until then one of the most heavily monitored location in the world has only provided grainy old footage where current quality video should exist. The media and apparently most Americans are as well are fine with that. Too bad Jay Z's sister in law didn't fight him in the Mandalay elevator as well as the football play that knocked out his fiancé. Those elevators has video and no one had a problem sharing that footage. The fact that a service elevator may have been used at a bank, I mean casino, shouldn't make a difference.

It's not a conspiracy to asks questions. If sufficient and reasonable data points are provided up front by the offices paid to do that. Who are the police and FBI protecting? If their only suspect is dead what is the big secret?

 

[41mag]

In the end we were all swindled, swindled of our youth, our innocence, our loves, and our lives.

pithy summary
thank you for your service and sorry to have the entire episode stank up OUR country;
you've hit on some of the eternal truths that continue to swindle all of us in various ways

 

[Captain O]

While I understand your emotion and you have your opinion, consider the following and although it's a VARIATION of a theme, JUST maybe you'll see some parallels... there's nothing new under the sun.



-Domestic social fabric being shredded, pitting citizen against citizen. "Left vs Right"... check

-Seemingly endless war and the military-industrial complex feeding the rich while it buries the "poor"... check.

-The "sexual revolution"... check.

-Civil rights, and "race wars"... check.

-An ever increasingly powerful authoritarian government... check.

-Nation Building abroad... check.

-Domestic terrorist groups causing mayhem... check.

-Killing "godliness" from the National consciousness... check.




Naw, I'm not too far off the mark... if at all. I'm however sincerely sorry if I offended you, but it is what it is.



Peace unto you, Captain O

175,000 dead Saigon residents that didn't want to become "good little Communists"- check

2,500,000 dead South Vietnamese/Saigon residents that fled to Cambodia slain by the Pol Pot regime in the "Killing Fields" because they wouldn't become "good little Communists" - check.

 

[308]

Nothing to see here citizen...please move along

 

[kamaaina1]

The sliding time-line and the rent-a-cop in this horrific act just don't add up....No video of the hallway leading to the room also a mystery.

 

[Stomper]

175,000 dead Saigon residents that didn't want to become "good little Communists"- check

2,500,000 dead South Vietnamese/Saigon residents that fled to Cambodia slain by the Pol Pot regime in the "Killing Fields" because the wouldn't become "good little Communists" - check.

I hear you, man. I was alive (albeit I was a young kid) during the Vietnam war and it played a large part in forming my warrior mentality before enlisting. It was also an awful tragedy and waste of lives on all sides.


I'm not minimizing any of it, I served in the Army, I served abroad, I even wore much of the same kit as your generation fought with. I also bear "the burden" of that service, and what I acknowledge is that no generation has a "lock on pain", and the cycle continues to repeat itself...


Troops being recycled and pulling 2,3,4,5, sometimes 6 12-month tours in combat theaters with their minds, bodies, and souls getting shedded and wrung out... check.


Millions of Muslims who don't want to live under a caliphate... check.

Untold numbers of "infidels" and Muslim souls hideously
tortured and murdered by ISIS.... check.


Like I said before, there's nothing new under the sun.




Peace to you, brother!

 

[awshoot]

Thanks for the snarky coments.

Anyone want to discount what was presented, or do you prefer to simply follow the exact same mental process as those who believe CNN etc are truthful and anyone disagreeing is a wacko.

Here's my problem with videos like this -- they're a waste of _____ time. I started the first one and in the first minute he mentions previous false flags, people waking up, nothing will convince him he is wrong, blah blah blah. It's like listening to some multi-level marketing mumbo jumbo for an hour. This works for some people -- me, I'm like "get to the #$&^ing point already!"

Here's the deal -- if it was put down in writing in a cogent report, I'd read it. If I found myself skipping too many paragraphs because they're irrelevant rehashes of whale songs in the Gulf of Tonkin or whatever, then yeah, I'm quitting my read. If it is facts and data and logical conclusions, I'll finish reading it. But these interminable videos with the one single salient fact covering 12 seconds buried inside 20 minutes of marketing-speak? Nope. Not worth my time.

 

[awshoot]

I agree with everything you posted and I am still waiting for basic facts or reasonable explanations.

• The 28 yr old gal who was outspoken regarding multiple shooters at ground level...she died 4-days later...for some reason...s.

Honestly, I think this video is the best explanation for why some people think there were multiple shooters. Most people don't actually know that a bullet at supersonic speed makes noise, but here's a great demonstration of how someone ignorant of that effect could realistically believe there were two shooters:

I will guarantee you that there was not a second shooter down in the pit below the targets.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

been saying it since day 1. follow the money.

 

[uberguy]

Someone warning you to be careful about source information, and you criticize their critical thinking is precisely ad hominem. Regardless of whether or not I "feel" it is.

Actually, no that's precisely NOT ad hominem.
You really should pay better attention to word meanings before tossing them about, especially when calling out others. What the OP said was not ad hominem, regardless of how you feel.