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TODAYS NRA TRIVIA!!

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by U201492, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. U201492

    U201492 Well-Known Member

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    When I was going through the NRA's Pistol, Home Safety, Refuse to be a victim instructor training schools we were taught by the NRA Senior Instructors:

    "You will no longer use the term "weapon" in your vocabulary. Every time we hear the word "weapon" you will put $1 towards the summer beer fund as punishment. The reason why is non-shooters get nervous, it scares them when they hear the word "weapon".

    So, please try to keep this in mind and use the word "firearm(s)", a generic name ("pistol", "shotgun", or "that rifle right there") or the specific make and model (such as "That Ruger Mark III- no, the other one with the stainless finish")

    By choosing the words we use, when quoted by the media they have to use the words we used at the time of the interview.

    A few months ago the Denver Post's main editor was internationally smacked down because she made the judgment that a high school student who knew a deranged shooter "knew Kant". When they rewrote the Post's interview she defended her judgment by saying "a high school student wouldn't know who Kant was".

    We can have the other news media outlets work for us by trapping them this way.:thumbup:
     
  2. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    Yet another in a long list of reasons why I dismiss most civilian NRA training as outdated and a waste of my time.
     
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  3. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Strange, because most police officers and their instructors were trained by NRA instructors.

    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
    Defender of Freedom Award
    NRA Recruiter
    Second Amendment Foundation Member
    Washington Arms Collectors Member
    Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member


    "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"
     
  4. Bacchus

    Bacchus The Republic Active Member

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    Too many people who aren't NRA dues paying members trying to make the decisions on what the NRA should or should not be doing.
     
  5. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    The NRA LEO programs have revived funding for constant reevaluation and improvement over time. They are very different animals from the civilian side. Even those are not as good as a lot of the non NRA curriculum courses out there.

    The general consensus among the other instructors I have talked to is that the generic NRA classes are about 20 years out of date in both the content and direction.

    The NRA has been chasing the industry and public trends for a long time. If it wants to stay relevant it really needs to embrace what's going on in the shooting world and get behind it instead of spotting a trend that's here to stay and trying to re brand it, usually in a really lame way but with some money behind it. Until the membership begins to put pressure on the organization to change it will continue to stagnate.

    The reason that all the instructors I know have the NRA BIT and pistol is the insurance. For whatever reason the NRA has established their course as the industry standard and the class will get you the best rates. How many people would pay 400-1000 a weekend classes which follow the NRA curriculum. The NRA BIT is all about what an NRA class is and how to file the paperwork and not deviate from the curriculum. Unless you have never taken a class or taught even a simple class it is an exercise in how to stay awake and an utter waste compared to any of the quality instructor development classes out there. Then the really disappointing part is the NRA pretends that the class alone is enough to prepare you to teach a class.
     
  6. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    So you are an up to date licensed firearms instructor I take it?
     
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  7. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    There is no such thing as a "licensed" firearm instructor unless it is at a state level for LEO training.
    At some point my NRA renewal will make it through the system, hopefully before it expires completely. If you think about it the expiration date of whatever certification is not a really meaningful thing. Who's more qualified, the guy who took the class and sent in the money on time after teaching a couple of classes, or the person who's been doing a couple of classes a month is a system that allows for mentoring and then taking a bunch of classes from good instructors?
    If your looking for an instructor their bio of training and feedback from previous students is a lot more important than an NRA class.
     
  8. U201492

    U201492 Well-Known Member

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    Certificated- quite a bit of difference between the two, Mr. Jim.
     
  9. U201492

    U201492 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your financial donation to keep this forum going. Without people like you, the rest of us who are willing to put our money where our mouth's are wouldn't be able to lead by example.
     
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  10. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    Are the 30 companies on the main forum page right now buying advertising not covering the costs?
     
  11. U201492

    U201492 Well-Known Member

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    There is a great deal of truth in that. HOWEVER- and its a big HOWEVER- every person who has made a negative comment on this thread has missed a VERY important thing.

    Instructors do NOT work for the NRA. Instructors are either self employed as small business owners OR they have put their classes together as a 503(C) (I think thats right).

    What this means? The NRA instructor training is a STARTING POINT. It is not the end all be all- the INSTRUCTORS are expected to add or subtract as their companies profile see's fit.

    Sure, I have NRA training material. I might even use it someday- always a good idea to keep fire starter on hand right? =D

    Seriously? The NRA certification simply means when I advertize the general public recognizes that I have accomplished the basic standards required to teach- no more, and no less. $5 and this opinion means the coffee's worth more.

    The current handbook I teach from- when I teach- is certain photocopies from certain books, and certain websites with due credit given to the authors. But the NRA certificated process simply says I can hang up a sign that says "NRA instructor" thats pretty much about it.

    Now, when everyones done complaining, the NRA instructors are also given grants from the NRA's "Friends of the NRA". Examples are the large "Powerpoint" Presentation projectors- the cheapest one they sell run's about $900 at Office Depot give or take a bit. But I can get a business license, and I can apply for a "Friends of the NRA" grant for teaching materials such as books, and other items.

    If all you can do is complain, then you're part of the problem. If you haven't taken the classes, then what gives you the right to complain and say they're wrong? True, you have your 1st Amendment Rights....

    But just remember- right or wrong, there's 5 million NRA members who are paying and supporting the other 75 million gun owners who are getting a free ride and won't support the NRA. That's one NRA member supporting 15 gun owners who arn't paying for their gun rights, for pushing for legislation concerning guns, for lobbyist, etc.
     
  12. U201492

    U201492 Well-Known Member

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    Well Mr. Lange- do those people pay for lobbest in Olympia? How about Washington, DC?

    How many of them give to the NRA as a corporate sponsor?

    It's not a mater about "covering costs"- its a mater of covering total (hidden) costs

    Seeing the local picture is good. Seeing the "west coast" picture of how California is screwed is better. Seeing the entire nation is great. Seeing the affects of world wide gun control and how it's failed in England, Canada, and Australia is excellent. To see ALL of these from different angles is the most excellent of all- its like the ability to read the clouds and see where the antigunners are coming from, how to avoid the next storm.
     
  13. U201492

    U201492 Well-Known Member

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    So in spite of the explanation of why the use of the term "weapon" is a bad idea, you would go ahead and use the term "weapon" to scare non-shooters because this was pointed out by the NRA as a bad publicity?

    Well thats your opinion Mr. Lange. I'm sure the forum members will remember that if you're ever interviewed by Jean Enderson on KING5 and you hold up your "black rifle" and say "Yeah this is my WEAPON" thats a perfect way of giving the antigunners a sound bite to ban guns.

    Thank You for your support.
     
  14. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    The NRA has the ability to make all of the classes they support meaningful quality classes.

    As I stated earlier the NRA has seemingly been happy with a stagnant program for a long time. It does have the resources and the level of public recognition to put together ground breaking programs in a lot of areas. Instead I got to listen to "What and How to teach the outdated NRA Pistol Class" with no really informative or innovative material on really teaching when I did my BIT and Pistol.

    Until the membership of the NRA starts to push, the organization will stay static. I still remember the seeming reluctance to get behind owners of black rifles and defensive pistols around 1994 when the Crime bill was being pushed. It wasn't until black rifles became a significant part of the market that the NRA gave them their full support. I see that they are finally starting to embrace things like 3 Gun, 10 years late and in a really lame way.

    I have expressed my opinion to higher levels of the NRA training department and tried to get them to start supporting the main stream 3 Gun competitions. That's about as much as I can do.

    As far as the grants go, which would be better. Help you buy some overhead equipment or help you with the expensive part which is the continuing instructor development. With the budgets that the NRA could put together why are we not seeing $100 week long high level instructor development courses and local "schools", for lack of a better word, doing apprentice style development and classes more along the format of a formal martial art?
     
  15. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    So you expect a large percentage of the people sitting through an NRA class to be non-shooters? There is the flip side to refusing to acknowledge that it's a weapon, all of the people like me who dispose political correctness will turn you off and all of the growing population of people buying for protection will start looking else where for an organization because they want a weapon, that's how you defend yourself.

    Anti gun people will take any mention of a gun as a negative, Allowing them to control the language of the debate is a non winner strategy.

    I also looked through the donate section of the web site. It says nothing about using donated funds for political purposes. So why would I spend my money there as opposed to OFA or similar when I want a representative to lobby on my behalf.
     
  16. Jerry

    Jerry Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly that we should stay away from using the word "weapon" to describe firearms for the reason given.

    The liberals and anti-firearms folks have been quite succesful in their use of perjorative language and controlling the debate or at least setting the boundaries.

    "Assault weapon", "military style", high capacity", "weapons of mass destruction" are a few that come to mind.
     
  17. FAST ED

    FAST ED Milwaukie OR. Member

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    The NRA has its good points and does great things for the industry. I am a proud member and an NRA R.S.O.. If I were looking for advanced training I'd look to Costa or Redback One or the like. I have seen this type of training first hand, its first rate. If we change our language to firearm from weapon or gun the anti-gunners will just follow suit. For instance- SH*T=crap=poop=turd or "fecal mater" to be politicaly correct. Now we can call it "elimination" and think it makes it not stink. A popular saying comes to mind "YOU CANT POLISH A TURD". That is what the anti-gunners are trying to make us do if we play their games. Anti-gunners are ignorent to the core and you cant win an arguement with ignorence.

    Just my 2.0005 cents
     
  18. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Eddie,
    Dried hard, coated in polyurethane, it can be polished. Still, it is what it is...

    Lange,
    I just renewed my cert on the internet. Instant renewal. The card followed about a week and a half later.

    Membership back 45 years.
    My application needed someone else certifying I was a law-abiding citizen (neighbor deputy signed for me)
    The thrust of American Rifleman was disseminating hunting, shooting, gun knowledge and American war history.
    Advertisements! buy a 1903, 1911, Kraig, surplus police guns, DCM ammunition through the mail, delivered to the house.
    All NRA classes I ever attended started with safety and gun mechanics.
    As I reflect back, class outlines mimic military training outlines.
    NRA is still doing what it has done since it's inception.

    Originally Posted by Lange22250
    "Yet another in a long list of reasons why I dismiss most civilian NRA training as outdated and a waste of my time."
    You've moved beyond entry level, good for you and for everyone else who has.
    I've been enthused about firearms for more than 55 years.
    When attending RSO cert class, I burst out in frustration with "This is all common sense stuff!"
    Boss RSO said "Watching out for the Noobs is very important! Everybody have fun, nobody gets hurt!"

    The market always fills the void:
    Col Jeff Cooper - Gunsite Ranch
    Redback One
    Mossad Ayoob
    to name only a very few...

    Step up, step out and plunk your money down!:thumbup:
     
  19. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    Yeah that's what I was meaning to get across. My bad.
     
  20. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Read somewhere
    "It is better to remove the toothpick from your own eye, than to pick your neighbor's nits"