Washington the public safety and semiautomatic assault rifle act

[alv7722]

It would be nice.

Could gun owners get together to put forward their own measures and stick it out there?

.

We should not need a ballot measure, or anything else, to reiterate what is in the Bill of Rights!! "Shall not be infringed", is a pretty clear statement. Last I checked, the Constitution and B of R were never intended to be voted on via Mob Rule!

 

[shibbershabber]

We should not need a ballot measure, or anything else, to reiterate what is in the Bill of Rights!! "Shall not be infringed", is a pretty clear statement. Last I checked, the Constitution and B of R were never intended to be voted on via Mob Rule!

I know.

And look where we find ourselves today

 

[MDL]

Second Amendment Foundation Seeks to Invalidate I-1639

SAF, CCRKBA CHALLENGE WA INITIATIVE, SEEK INVALIDATION


BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation and Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms today asked the Washington State Supreme Court to invalidate Initiative 1639 and enjoin the Secretary of State to reject the petitions on the grounds that petitions circulated by paid signature gatherers failed to meet state requirements for readability nor did they include a "full, true, and correct copy of the proposed measure printed on the reverse side."
"We publicly warned the initiative sponsors about these problems and they ignored us," said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb. "We are now taking the issue to the state high court to seek a declaratory judgment and injunction.
"During the signature gathering process," he continued, "we were contacted by several people who were alarmed at the unreadability of the text, and also because they could not really tell what changes they were being asked to make to existing law. The microscopic maze of fine print used by the initiative sponsors disguised the actual language of the measure on the back of their petitions, which violates state law.
"Reading that petition is like taking a bad eye exam," Gottlieb stated.
"When paid signature gatherers told people to 'read it online,' that simply did not meet the requirements of state law," he noted. "Use of such fine print is unconscionable, and when you compound that problem with the omission of underlines for proposed changes to existing law, and strike-out lines showing what current law would be eliminated, it's not just alarming, it amounts to deception."
Gottlieb said there are "a lot of problems hidden in that small print." The proposed measure not only impairs the rights of young adults to own modern sporting rifles, it classifies traditional semiautomatic rifles, even rimfires, as "assault weapons." It adds a hidden tax, disguised as a paperwork processing fee, on the exercise of a fundamental right protected by the state and federal constitutions, and it requires an ill-defined standard of 'safe storage' that carries a felony-level penalty for a violation.
"How were voters supposed to know what they're being asked to change," Gottlieb wondered. "How could they tell the difference between what would become law, and what would be replaced?
"Just because this initiative is supported by wealthy Seattle elitists doesn't mean it could be circulated in a form that violates the law," Gottlieb said. "The court needs to step in enforce state law and the state constitution."

 

[shibbershabber]

There's no date there... Is that currently being filed???

 

[MDL]

There's no date there... Is that currently being filed???

Hmm, received it from SAF 6/29 at 2:14 in an email. I would surmise that it was around Friday.

 

[Boss]

This is all just swell, for someone who likes to sit around and talk about the way things oughta be.

This is the way things are: Gun owners are facing an initiative backed by billionaires. You can sit around and pontificate on the internet, or you can roll up your sleeves, help raise money for the political battle, and then help get people registered to vote, educate them what's at stake and make sure they vote.

I speak to a lot of people. It is appalling how many don't even know the names of their elected representatives. Some don't even know what legislative district they live in. Some don't vote because "I don't want my name on a list" or "My vote never counts."

Question: Just how stupid is that? I want to know. There must be some degree of stupidity involved here.

------------------
Here's a challenge.

Everybody who reads this has 24 hours to learn the names of his/her representatives, which party they belong to, and how to contact them. And make sure you can correctly spell their names.

Now, don't buy that pack of cigarettes for the weekend. Forget the cigar. Don't buy the sixpack or the 12 pack for the Friday night chill.

INSTEAD:
DONATE - Save Our Security | No on I-1639

The people you're up against are in the game. They are fanatics about it.They don't like you or your guns.

If you knew someone was coming next week to break into your home, take your property, hurt your family, would you do something now to prevent it....oooorrrrrrrrrr, would you just sit back, crack a Bud, and wait for divine intervention?


(Oh, and BTW: The firearms industry has been a busy bunch, fighting lawsuits, trying to work with Congress to prevent a lot of stuff. Don't wait for someone else to do something. YOU do it. Make it happen.

There are 3 kinds of people. Those who make things happen. Those who watch things happen. Those who wonder what happened.

Which are you?)

Respectfully,

I can understand your frustration...but the small group of folks that have found their way into this particular subforum are probably the last ones that need an sort of angst directed at them or 'challenge' thrown out. Most here are well aware there's big $$ on the other side. And I'd venture to guess most here have donated on numerous occasions and will continue to do so in the future because they realize attempts to bankrupt pro-2A efforts are all part of the plan. Wasn't just 4 months ago that the NRA broke like a 15 year-donation record? Something like $2.4 for the month of March, 2018? I realize $2.4M doesn't go as far as it used to these days...but to suggest that members, especially members HERE, aren't putting some money where their mouths are is unwarranted.

Rather, have any 'industry professionals' issued similar admonishments to the firearm-related businesses that certainly don't seem to be too engaged? Aren't many of those businesses affiliated with the NRA, NSSF, SAF, and others? Aren't those associations calling for those businesses to 'roll up their sleeves' and get involved? One would hope so. Those businesses have hundreds, if not thousands, of customers walking through their doors, coming to them...every month...why aren't they doing more to help spread the word? They could be doing a heckava lot of outreach, if they chose to do so. They get paid to talk to gun owners, and perspective gun owners...All.Day.Long. It's their livelihood, they don't have to miss work to do it, and most of them don't have to have to worry about some gun control advocate person in HR in the corporate office back east deciding 'their services are no longer needed.'

Much the same could be said about ranges.

But...in the end, infighting amongst ourselves isn't productive and you can probably bet there's anti-2A folks love nothing more than to see quarreling in-house.

As has been suggested, what about getting a pro-2A initiative underway? Yeah, there's risk to it (if enough signatures weren't collected it would be on every MSM channel as [inert booming echo voice here] The FAILURE of the century!!). As has been previously suggested a national day or two of 'Free Range Days...and/or take your neighbor shooting' type if ideas. Imagine dozens of ranges across the state, and a few hundred ranges across the country offering a free range day with safety instruction a couple times a year?
That's probably not something a single lowly member is going to get any traction with...but if the NRA/SAF/NSSF got behind it, it could become a reality. And that would probably do a lot more to help promote a positive image of gun owners.

Are these ideas perfect? Nope. They might not even see the light of day for any number of reasons...but at least we're trying to exchange ideas and get our voice heard (other than what we may be willing to donate today). Perhaps someone in the upper echelon of one of the major organizations might see something, or be told about something, being discussed here and say 'Hey, that's not a bad idea...let's see if we can do something with that.'

My $.02 worth.
BOSS




​

 

[bentoncity]

DONATE - Save Our Security | No on I-1639
Don't wait for someone else to do something. YOU do it. Make it happen.
There are 3 kinds of people. Those who make things happen. Those who watch things happen. Those who wonder what happened.
Which are you?)

Dave, you missed the 4th kind, and I'm not being critical. Those who TRY to make things happen.
I know some are trying & I'm grateful to those that are.
I often feel like my efforts are;
"You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim" (Jim Croce)
I'm still bewildered why no argument was made in court by labeling semi-autos semi-automatic assault rifles when there is no such thing!
My effort towards 'enlightenment' are in the ad.

Dan

 

[jim97701]

Looks like Washingtonians are getting hosed unless they can turn out the no vote.

Washington gun initiative turns in petition signatures

 

[Diamondback]

Looks like Washingtonians are getting hosed unless they can turn out the no vote.

Washington gun initiative turns in petition signatures

Unless our RINO SUCKretary of State learns how to DO HER FARKIN' JOB and rejects 'em, anyway...

 

[shibbershabber]

Party is over if those get certified...

Voters can't be trusted to see past the BS and make a sound decision

 

[Boss]

Looks like Washingtonians are getting hosed unless they can turn out the no vote.

Washington gun initiative turns in petition signatures

There was supposed to be a news conference, but I've not seen anything. I'm sure it'll be the same smug BS they always show. But this has gotten strangely quite here in the last 24 hrs.

If this does make in on the ballot, it'll take every gun owner in the state, and their relatives and friends to get out, register, and vote. Grassroots is great, but I suspect it'll take a lot more than that...which means $$. TV, Radio, social media. I read somewhere on the net (so must be true right), that SOS had received only $6K, as opposed to over $2.4M for the other side.

As I keep saying, every range, gun shop, and related business needs to make this a major talking point. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Every person that walks into a range, match, or gun shop should find a laptop with the link to register to vote on line and a flyer about I-1639.

Registering to vote takes two minutes on line:

Register to Vote Online in Washington - Vote.org

There's supposed to be 10 NRA reps (FAL's) in WA who are supposed to be active with such things. I hope they're gassed and ready to go, because they're going to need to be getting into overdrive (and so is every gun owner).

BOSS

 

[Boss]

Party is over if those get certified...

Voters can't be trusted to see past the BS and make a sound decision

Of course every opponent wants you to believe there is NO WAY you can win. Yep...don't even bother.

Two Words: President Trump.

BOSS

 

[shibbershabber]

Trump was an anomaly... and nationwide...

What else is on the ballot in WA that is going to get Conservatives out to vote?

Not enough conservatives vote.
Not enough conservatives truly care about the 2A.

How many believe in raising the age to 21?
How many won't read past that and vote in favor?

We are in a bad spot here.

We don't have the money
We don't have the media coverage
We don't even have the support of the local shooting industry.


We all whined and cried when I594 passed. But I swear to God, we will shoot ourselves in the foot again.

Not to say that I won't do everything I can... But I know I'm not enough.

 

[Diamondback]

Or pray for the I-90 Fault to cast Sodom-on-the-Sound into the sea...

 

[shibbershabber]

Or pray for the I-90 Fault to cast Sodom-on-the-Sound into the sea...

I'd go for the whole Cascadia ripping before then

 

[4whatitsworth]

Unless our RINO SUCKretary of State learns how to DO HER FARKIN' JOB and rejects 'em, anyway...

I don't know Wyman, and I've never met the woman but I campaigned for her and gave the maximum I could for her re-election, for one reason only. I know the person she ran against and know intimately why she was picked to run against Wyman. Her opponent is a powerhouse in the LGBT community, former Seattle City Council member and more anti-gun than Hillary ever imagined. The state dems wanted the last state-wide elective post so they would have complete control of state government. And this post has real power, like certifying ballots after the third count that took away the governors office from Rossi. Wyman barely beat Podlodowski this last time, and next time we are screwed because of sentiment like yours.

We are in real trouble if we start calling everyone who didn't do exactly what we wanted a RINO. We are going to lose a district in this state because of it and others across the country. We need to search for technical reasons to block this and she has at least stated there are serious constitutional questions about this initiative. Her last opponent would have already blessed it.

 

[Dave Workman]

Respectfully,

I can understand your frustration...but the small group of folks that have found their way into this particular subforum are probably the last ones that need an sort of angst directed at them or 'challenge' thrown out. Most here are well aware there's big $$ on the other side. And I'd venture to guess most here have donated on numerous occasions and will continue to do so in the future because they realize attempts to bankrupt pro-2A efforts are all part of the plan. Wasn't just 4 months ago that the NRA broke like a 15 year-donation record? Something like $2.4 for the month of March, 2018? I realize $2.4M doesn't go as far as it used to these days...but to suggest that members, especially members HERE, aren't putting some money where their mouths are is unwarranted.

Rather, have any 'industry professionals' issued similar admonishments to the firearm-related businesses that certainly don't seem to be too engaged? Aren't many of those businesses affiliated with the NRA, NSSF, SAF, and others? Aren't those associations calling for those businesses to 'roll up their sleeves' and get involved? One would hope so. Those businesses have hundreds, if not thousands, of customers walking through their doors, coming to them...every month...why aren't they doing more to help spread the word? They could be doing a heckava lot of outreach, if they chose to do so. They get paid to talk to gun owners, and perspective gun owners...All.Day.Long. It's their livelihood, they don't have to miss work to do it, and most of them don't have to have to worry about some gun control advocate person in HR in the corporate office back east deciding 'their services are no longer needed.'

Much the same could be said about ranges.

But...in the end, infighting amongst ourselves isn't productive and you can probably bet there's anti-2A folks love nothing more than to see quarreling in-house.

As has been suggested, what about getting a pro-2A initiative underway? Yeah, there's risk to it (if enough signatures weren't collected it would be on every MSM channel as [inert booming echo voice here] The FAILURE of the century!!). As has been previously suggested a national day or two of 'Free Range Days...and/or take your neighbor shooting' type if ideas. Imagine dozens of ranges across the state, and a few hundred ranges across the country offering a free range day with safety instruction a couple times a year?
That's probably not something a single lowly member is going to get any traction with...but if the NRA/SAF/NSSF got behind it, it could become a reality. And that would probably do a lot more to help promote a positive image of gun owners.

Are these ideas perfect? Nope. They might not even see the light of day for any number of reasons...but at least we're trying to exchange ideas and get our voice heard (other than what we may be willing to donate today). Perhaps someone in the upper echelon of one of the major organizations might see something, or be told about something, being discussed here and say 'Hey, that's not a bad idea...let's see if we can do something with that.'

My $.02 worth.
BOSS​

Boss:

It is too late for a "pro-2A initiative" because the signature deadline was July 6..today.

I'll take a wild guess here that the businesses are already engaged and will be even more so if this measure qualifies for the ballot.

Right now a "national range day" is not going to accomplish what needs to be accomplished in Washington State.
The ideas aren't bad, they're just not what is required in the here and now. What IS and WILL BE required are two things: Activism and money...lots of both.

Activism will move forward on voter registration and "get out the vote" efforts.
Money...well...that's the life blood of politics and gun owners will need to raise and contribute a pretty good chunk of change if you expect to have any hope of putting up a fight.. Advertising, yard signs, organization; it all takes money.

Two places:
saveoursecurity.net
www.ccrkba.org

And to support any legal action www.saf.org

Incidentally, I'm not frustrated. I'm just a realist.

 

[Dave Workman]

I don't know Wyman, and I've never met the woman but I campaigned for her and gave the maximum I could for her re-election, for one reason only. I know the person she ran against and know intimately why she was picked to run against Wyman. Her opponent is a powerhouse in the LGBT community, former Seattle City Council member and more anti-gun than Hillary ever imagined. The state dems wanted the last state-wide elective post so they would have complete control of state government. And this post has real power, like certifying ballots after the third count that took away the governors office from Rossi. Wyman barely beat Podlodowski this last time, and next time we are screwed because of sentiment like yours.

We are in real trouble if we start calling everyone who didn't do exactly what we wanted a RINO. We are going to lose a district in this state because of it and others across the country. We need to search for technical reasons to block this and she has at least stated there are serious constitutional questions about this initiative. Her last opponent would have already blessed it.

BRAVO.

 

[Boss]

Boss:

It is too late for a "pro-2A initiative" because the signature deadline was July 6..today.

I'll take a wild guess here that the businesses are already engaged and will be even more so if this measure qualifies for the ballot.

Right now a "national range day" is not going to accomplish what needs to be accomplished in Washington State.
The ideas aren't bad, they're just not what is required in the here and now. What IS and WILL BE required are two things: Activism and money...lots of both.

Activism will move forward on voter registration and "get out the vote" efforts.
Money...well...that's the life blood of politics and gun owners will need to raise and contribute a pretty good chunk of change if you expect to have any hope of putting up a fight.. Advertising, yard signs, organization; it all takes money.

Two places:
saveoursecurity.net
www.ccrkba.org

And to support any legal action www.saf.org

Incidentally, I'm not frustrated. I'm just a realist.

I hear ya, we're on the same team.

As I've posted elsewhere, there's like 10 NRA FAL's listed for Washington. If you know any of them, you might invite them to poke their heads in here.

One thing I've also posted elsewhere...many counties and schools have 'Republican' clubs. Particularly like on UW. Is that something that could be tapped into? I'd think they're well plugged into social media, and could reach out to a lot of folks. Just a thought.

Next paycheck I plan to make another donation or two.

BOSS

 

[shibbershabber]

Yes. If anyone has a social media presence... Now is the time. Come out of the gun closet and start spreading the word