Supply Chain issues

[Ura-Ki]

All our at exports from Or and WA go out through Portland, don't they?

Were the longshoremen asking more than those at other West coast ports get? Or operating less efficiently?

I thought one problem was ships kept getting larger and the Columbia wasn't deep enough for the bigger ships. Sounds like when the longshoremen staged their slowdown, there were really only two shipping companies stopping at Portland.

But how are our exports like white soft wheat making it to the Asian noodle making market for which it was designed?

Most shipping got moved to the Port of Longview, and combined with the States not holding up their end of the bargain to dredge the Columbia to it's mean depth and maintain it, the Corps of Engineers wouldn't do any more then what's currently required! They really need to dredge it to 64 feet and widen the channel @ the mouth by about 200 feet all that way up past Tongue Point, and keep it dredged full time, which would require an extra dredge and the Coast Guard would need to expand it's presence, something our Gov'ness has been pushing for, but hasn't gotten through!

 

[OldBroad44]

If we were clever we would dredge the Columbia now, get the dock labor, and restart international trade at Port of Portland. This would be a great time to negotiate contracts with shipping companies who have weeks long waits at Longview.

 

[Diamondback]

Look at what the city/state did to Evergreen Shipping @T-6 all those years ago, they had a great thing going with Evergreen there, and the politicians screwed it all up and Evergreen said screw you and pulled up stakes and left! Don't just blame the longshoremen, the city/state was the ones who really put the screws to the unions and forced them to take action! Combined with how the Tug Boat companies, trucking companies and the rail road got screwed in the deal, it's no wonder this state is so phucked up!

The easy button is to refuse to do business in Left Coast states entirely, as Cracker Barrel and some other nationals have done. Perkins, once a roadtripping staple for summer trips with the grandparents, is down to only Ellensburg and Spokane here...

 

[Certaindeaf]

All our at exports from Or and WA go out through Portland, don't they?

Were the longshoremen asking more than those at other West coast ports get? Or operating less efficiently?

I thought one problem was ships kept getting larger and the Columbia wasn't deep enough for the bigger ships. Sounds like when the longshoremen staged their slowdown, there were really only two shipping companies stopping at Portland.

But how are our exports like white soft wheat making it to the Asian noodle making market for which it was designed?

I believe by road and rail..

 

[Ura-Ki]

If we were clever we would dredge the Columbia now, get the dock labor, and restart international trade at Port of Portland. This would be a great time to negotiate contracts with shipping companies who have weeks long waits at Longview.

It's being pushed hard, there's lots of money tied up shipping stuff over the road or by rails ether from Cali. or Seattle that could be better spent if we put our ports to work again, T-6 is and always has been the ideal location, with T-5 shared if it got big enough, T-2 could even be brought back if the city/state really wanted! Combined with the ports of Vancouver and Rainer/St. Helens, we could be back in business with out too much investment! Hell, there is enough room for Astoria to be a shipping hub, most ships sit swinging at anchor there anyway, why not handle the freight there and not keep them anchored awaiting a dock up river? That would be pretty smart, but what do I know, I'm just an old Rotor Head!

 

[Diamondback]

That would be pretty smart, but what do I know, I'm just an old Rotor Head!

Since when have the tards that rule our states, or the morons who elect them, ever done anything that was smart?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Since when have the tards that rule our states, or the morons who elect them, ever done anything that was smart?

Nope, and that's not about to change anytime soon ether! Only way to make it happen is for the Feds to step in and do it for us and then send the states the bill! It's happened before, sure needs to happen again!

 

[OldBroad44]

IMO it's time to use selective service to enlist truck drivers and dock workers from among the unemployed and able bodied as this qualifies as a national defense issue. Your choice when you get the notice - take a job at the going rate or become Private Dockworker for military pay.

Sounds like slavery. Or Communist countries where people have to do what the government says or be imprisoned and used as slave labor or tortured or killed.

No. There needs to be a major declared war on for it to be it to be legit to draft people. Even in WWII drafting people except for the military was rare. Namely, some of the scientists who were a bit older than ordinary draft age who were recruited to work on the Manhattan Project. My major professor at Harvard was one of these, a young assistant prof at Chicago who was recruited to work on biological effects of radiation.

In WWII the entire civilian economy was retooled to make ships, trucks, planes, guns. This was all civilian labor. The jobs were filled not because the US suddenly discovered the virtues of slave labor. They were filled because they were good jobs that paid well that people were happy to take. And they would provide the training. And they recruited women from areas that had seen no jobs available in years. Rosy the Riveter posters all over the country. Help the war effort and get paid well for it.

In addition we have laws against using the military to substitute for civilian labor. If we didn't businesses would frequently be using government to force people to take jobs that are too lousy to be filled by free men and women.

People aren't taking those jobs because the pay and working conditions have become too onerous. Force people to work those jobs against their will and you'll get sabotage. And would you really want to eat food prepared or served by people being forced to work there against their will? Not me. I prefer my food without the pee, spit, sh!t and dirty dish water.

I'm reminded of what Russian workers say about their government. "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us."

 

[OldBroad44]

Look at what the city/state did to Evergreen Shipping @T-6 all those years ago, they had a great thing going with Evergreen there, and the politicians screwed it all up and Evergreen said screw you and pulled up stakes and left! Don't just blame the longshoremen, the city/state was the ones who really put the screws to the unions and forced them to take action! Combined with how the Tug Boat companies, trucking companies and the rail road got screwed in the deal, it's no wonder this state is so phucked up!

Elaborate? Especially on "the politicians screwed it all up" and "the city/state was the ones who really put the screws to the unions and forced them to take action" a this sounds like something I should know more about.

 

[OldBroad44]

The easy button is to refuse to do business in Left Coast states entirely, as Cracker Barrel and some other nationals have done. Perkins, once a roadtripping staple for summer trips with the grandparents, is down to only Ellensburg and Spokane here...

California has too large a population, especially too large a proportion of the affluent population, for very many companies to write off that market.

 

[nammac]

Heard this morning the cost of shipping a rectangular container from China to the west coast has risen to more than $20K, which is double what it was in January '21. Sounds like it's only going to get worse from here.

Two observations: first - the government screwed the pooch with extended and enhanced unemployment, paying people more than they were earning pre-covid.

Second - I need to subscribe to the Oregonian again to ensure a reasonable priced, steady supply of toilet paper…

 

[41mag]

Only way to make it happen is for the Feds to step in and do it for us

odd argument given previous posts on such reliance on fed.gov performance

 

[The Heretic]

I really hope so, but only if it's snow. We moved a couple years ago to a bit higher elevation and have been wanting snow, still waiting. We only got ice last year and that really, I mean really, sucked.

Last year we had a bit of snow, then freezing mist/rain - which resulted in a relatively widespread power outage that lasted for a few days due to trees/limbs/etc. falling on power lines. The crews would fix a line only to have to fix it further down the line when they cleared the road, and then have to fix the line again when another tree/limb fell later. It was a bit of a mess.

 

[The Heretic]

Most shipping got moved to the Port of Longview, and combined with the States not holding up their end of the bargain to dredge the Columbia to it's mean depth and maintain it, the Corps of Engineers wouldn't do any more then what's currently required! They really need to dredge it to 64 feet and widen the channel @ the mouth by about 200 feet all that way up past Tongue Point, and keep it dredged full time, which would require an extra dredge and the Coast Guard would need to expand it's presence, something our Gov'ness has been pushing for, but hasn't gotten through!

The mouth of the Columbia is constantly changing, so yeah, it would be a full time operation (not sure if it could be done during the winter due to weather), and yeah, it would probably require expanded CG operations

 

[Diamondback]

California has too large a population, especially too large a proportion of the affluent population, for very many companies to write off that market.

I once crossed paths with a Cracker Barrel C-suiter over lunch in Indianapolis while visiting family--this is why I use them as a "case study" so much--and he told me that the cost-benefit of opening in California would put not just individual stores into the red but threaten the solvency of the entire company nationwide, and while OR and WA wouldn't threaten to sink the entire company like that they'd still be a nightmare trying to even break-even on.

It may have helped that at the time I was working on a Management degree...

 

[P7M13]

I once crossed paths with a Cracker Barrel C-suiter over lunch in Indianapolis

How long ago was this? Cracker Barrel is expanding in OR. A few years now in Beaverton, one in Salem, probably elsewhere.
It was a refreshing view back into midwestern life.

 

[Camelfilter]

How long ago was this? Cracker Barrel is expanding in OR. A few years now in Beaverton, one in Salem, probably elsewhere.
It was a refreshing view back into midwestern life.

They have one in Medford. Open just shy of 2 years now. Seems to be doing well.

 

[Ura-Ki]

was being sarcastic!

 

[Ura-Ki]

Elaborate? Especially on "the politicians screwed it all up" and "the city/state was the ones who really put the screws to the unions and forced them to take action" a this sounds like something I should know more about.

I'm a little rusty on the details, I was still in high school, so will do my best!

The Port of Portland owns the terminals, and employs all the longshoreman, not the shipping companies! In the late 80's very early 90's, the city decided to not only raise the lease rates but also increase the taxes that Evergreen ( and the other companies) was paying, that didn't sit well obviously, and they called the Ports bluff, telling them to go pound sand and pulling out over night, moving shipping to Seattle/Tacoma and Long Beach! Our Politicians got greedy and it cost them millions and millions big time! The second issue with the longshoreman involved a serious breach of their contract, the Port of Portland basically refused to negotiate better pay and benefits, and certain safety issues and hours of service! The Longshoremen called their bluff and shut down the ports until the city stepped up to negotiate in good faith!

Portland and the state of Oregon have a long history of this kind of thing, look at how they have treated Freightliner, diversified shipbuilding, Shaver marine, James River, Boise Cascade, Fred Divine diving and towing, and all the others! They see a big cash cow and stick their claws into extract more in fees, permits, leases and taxes, it's the state government's way of things! Most of those companies have since left the state. Oregon is sadly very well known for being very unfriendly to businesses and organized labor, hell, look at how they treat public employees like the teachers!

 

[Diamondback]

How long ago was this? Cracker Barrel is expanding in OR. A few years now in Beaverton, one in Salem, probably elsewhere.
It was a refreshing view back into midwestern life.

Summer 2001--a few days prior we'd been on a roadtrip and RIGHT across the Hudson from the Towers.