Sig Sauer P226, any thoughts?

[GunSmoke]

Its hilarious when people spout anecdotal evidence and their once offs, ignoring the complete body of work and a massive same size.

Ask any Respected gunsmith or Gun guru who has been balls deep in this game for 20+ years and they will tell you exactly what I will.

The exception doesn't make the rule. If 60% of the guns they make are good to go, that just means you were either Lucky, don't shoot enough to notice or aren't in tune with your equipment to know the difference.

There is a reason gun collectors don't buy US sigs, for the same reason Kimber is considered trash in the 1911 world. Go over to 10-8 forums and maybe you will learn something from people who actually know what they are talking about.

This is the problem with the gun community. Its no different than society with over half of the population being on the left side of the bell curve. Everyone thinks their opinion is equal, when its not. Its like some high school kid arguing with someone with a PHD is in the subject matter.

Sig has used the same template for 20 Years:
Rush a product to Market
Cut costs anywhere possible
Use their customers as beta testers
When the product inevitably is not salvageable, discounting it and stop supporting it.
New revisions and versions are purposely not backwards compatible so you have to buy all new accessories and mags.
Come out with 50 different versions of the same product. Name the same junk Scorpion , Legion or whatever and charge a premium for the SAME product.
Outsource parts to 3rd world countries who don't have indoor plumbing wherever possible.
Spend more money on marketing and paid reviews than actual R&D and customer support and warranty service (Just like Kimber)

So what on a current p226 is so much worse, quality wise, than a p226 from 20 years ago? Besides the e2 grips which, in my opinion are cheap plastic that should be replaced , I'll give you that one. Then again, those come on the base model and you can pay more for the nicer grips...

 

[nk02442]

Main difference is quality of small components (Cheap outsourced MIM garbage today), Fitment and Q/C.

The folded steel slides were never going to be produced in the US, just to expensive to setup for it with the proliferation of modern CNC. However there have been numerous issues over the years with out of spec slides (which is indicative of running tooling past its life cycle and lack of QC/QA of finished parts). This simply does not happen in a quality manufacturing environment. The problem is this costs money and when your trying to cut every corner possible to increase profitably, even at the cost of the quality of your product, this is what happens. Same principle in the AR market. What one company consideres a reject/defective parts another company will happly use to push product out the door. You either Care or Don't

Who knows what type of steel they are using and if its even being heat treated properly. The German Sig guns had a long reputation in both the Police and Military world through the 80's and 90's. That same reputation that Sig USA banked on, and than ran into the ground. They always had issues with galling on the slide/frames and poor wear with some of the alloy guns later on.

It didn't hurt that glock was taking up more market share but Sig did themselves no favors. I firmly believe if they adhered to the same quality of the European guns then they would have been much more prolific over the last 20 years or so.

Sig 226 was my very first pistol and I have owned dozens of sig products over the years and worked on hundreds in the mill (M11) . The difference in quality and failure rate between the Euro guns and US guns is night and day.

The M17 failure is just another great example. Grease the right palms and get your product selected, despite it being the clearly inferior product from end users. How a gun that can't pass a simple drop test is selected just shows you weapons selection at Aberdeen is a joke compared to days of old. Once again, use the customers as beta testers and then revise it after you sell a ton.

Sig USA does not care about its end users, other than extracting the most amount of money as possible. They never have and I don't see any reason they would start now.

 

[No_Regerts]

Its like some high school kid arguing with someone with a PHD is in the subject matter.

Then why bother yourself with our ignorance and child-like capacity to understand the intricacies of the wares that none of us have ever shot enough to develop a worthwhile opinion?

Besides, adults messing with kids is for weirdos that register with the Sheriff. Don't be that guy!

 

[nk02442]

Is it to much to ask if you are going to argue a position, at least have a bassline understanding of the subject matter?

Otherwise its better to be silent, maybe you will learn something.

And by my count you have contributed zero to this thread. You are only trying to stir the pot. At least try to contribute something valuable.

 

[sobo]

Well, I'm convinced! Y'all dump your SIGs out on the front porch and I'll be by in the morning to pick 'em all up and "dispose" of them properly fer ya...

 

[GunSmoke]

Main difference is quality of small components (Cheap outsourced MIM garbage today), Fitment and Q/C.

The folded steel slides were never going to be produced in the US, just to expensive to setup for it with the proliferation of modern CNC. However there have been numerous issues over the years with out of spec slides (which is indicative of running tooling past its life cycle and lack of QC/QA of finished parts). This simply does not happen in a quality manufacturing environment. The problem is this costs money and when your trying to cut every corner possible to increase profitably, even at the cost of the quality of your product, this is what happens.

Who knows what type of steel they are using and if its even being heat treated properly. The German Sig guns had a long reputation in both the Police and Military world through the 80's and 90's. That same reputation that Sig USA banked on, and than ran into the ground. They always had issues with galling on the slide/frames and poor wear with some of the alloy guns later on.

It didn't hurt that glock was taking up more market share but Sig did themselves no favors. I firmly believe if they adhered to the same quality of the European guns then they would have been much more prolific over the last 20 years or so.

Sig 226 was my very first pistol and I have owned dozens of sig products over the years and worked on hundreds in the mill (M11) . The difference in quality and failure rate between the Euro guns and US guns is night and day.
Alright... cheap garbage... got it! Well from a civilian stand point, I can say I dont know anyone who has had any issues with a p226

 

[GunSmoke]

Is it to much to ask if you are going to argue a position, at least have a bassline understanding of the subject matter?

Otherwise its better to be silent, maybe you will learn something.

And by my count you have contributed zero to this thread. You are only trying to stir the pot. At least try to contribute something valuable.

Is that directed at me?

 

[No_Regerts]

Is it to much to ask if you are going to argue a position, at least have a bassline understanding of the subject matter?

Otherwise its better to be silent, maybe you will learn something.

What argument would I or anyone have with ourselves? I, and many people on this thread, have decided we have an opinion about the gun in question. I'm certainly not going to listen to some blow hard and change that opinion.

 

[nammac]

People are individuals, they have opinions, and if those opinions disagree, so be it. We all have a different set of experiences upon which our opinions are based. Attacking folks because their opinion or experience differs with yours, that's what's wrong with our society at large... It's also a violation of forum rules which state "we must be excellent to each other". Period...

 

[nammac]

People are individuals, they have opinions, and if those opinions disagree, so be it. We all have a different set of experiences upon which our opinions are based. Attacking folks because their opinion or experience differs with yours, that's what's wrong with our society at large... It's also a violation of forum resumes which state "we must be excellent to each other". Period...

And for the record my US made Sig M11-A1 is a fine and reliable piece of hardware, the most accurate 9mm I've ever shot. That includes gen 3 S&W autos, S&W M&P's Belgium Browning Hi-Power and Glock 19's. All of which I have owned or currently own. My opinion, my experience...

 

[Kruel J]

Let's remember the rules here gentlemen.

And Sig sucks. Carry on.

 

[Xrperry]

Your opinion, mine run flawless

 

[Kruel J]

Your opinion, mine run flawless

Seriously though I really like the 226. I'm a lefty so I never bothered to buy one but I've shot a few and they are good.

 

[sobo]

And Sig sucks. Carry on.

BLASPHEMER!!!

 

[L84Cabo]

Me likey. I have a P226 Enhanced Elite. It's a nice gun.

If I had to do over again, however, I would look really hard at a SAO version and/or an X5 version. I would also look real hard at a P320 X5 variant too. At this point I just probably wouldn't add another SA/DA gun to my herd. YMMV.

 

[sobo]

I'm the proud owner of a P320, a P365, and a 1911 C3, and I hafta tell ya, I'm really looking seriously at that 320 X5. That's a real racer, there...

 

[Xrperry]

This reminds me of sitting around the campfire in a hunting camp debating the old Ford vs Chevy vs dodge. The only conclusion was you can drink a lot more beer discussing it, and at the end of the hunting trip a Ford and a Chevy and a dodge made it all the way home

 

[nk02442]

And for the record my US made Sig M11-A1 is a fine and reliable piece of hardware, the most accurate 9mm I've ever shot. That includes gen 3 S&W autos, S&W M&P's Belgium Browning Hi-Power and Glock 19's. All of which I have owned or currently own. My opinion, my experience...

Except it's not a 228; it's a 229 with m11a1 on the slide to dupe people who don't know any better. 228 is a whole different gun and handles much different. Got 2 west Germans sitting in my gun room. Probably the best pistol sig ever made, if you ignore the origins 210s

Its almost janky as the P225 releases that go for $1000 and are every way shape and form inferior to the surplus P6 that they are copying that go for $400.

 

[mwatkins]

thinking hard about a sig p226, any thoughts?

Carried one for many years at work. Great pistol as long as you don't mind the DA/SA trigger. Takes some getting used to but once you do it's second nature. Good luck!

 

[dojiijii]

Sig, already explained why. Go check out the price difference between a west German or 226/228 and US made one. The market doesn't lie.

The market for anything is based in part (sometimes large) on perception, so it can indeed lie.