Sick Glock

[odikiav]

I originally purchased a Gen 4 G22 8 years ago
didn't like the .40, so I put in a Wolf 9mm conversion, including 9mm ejector and extractor
put in a Gen 3 trigger, since I didn't like the Gen 4
it just didn't fire right, trigger was gritty and constantly threw brass to my forehead
after weeks of work, just got frustrated and put it back in safe
then late last year, I pulled it out to try again
hadn't cleaned the Glock in 6 years, was just sitting in the safe
went out to test fire it on my own range here on the property Remington Green Box 125 gn
2 mags fired fine, except brass to forehead again, then a failure to fire
trigger was still back, so I dropped the mag, kept the Glock pointed downrange, my finger was out of the trigger guard
was just bringing my left hand up over the muzzle to rack the slide
BAM - Bass Strike - the Glock went off and put a FMJ through my left hand
now if anyone wants the bloody photos, I have them
luckily, the FMJ went cleanly through my palm between my ring finger and little finger
BUT, the muzzle blast burned a hole completely through my hand cauterizing most of the wound
police investigation states accidental discharge - he carried a Glock himself and understood the mechanics of the Glock and the failure

still adapting 8 month later, since the scar tissue from the muzzle blast is keeping my hand from closing fully
but the purpose of this email is:
don't rack your slide from the front
and there is a situation with the Glock that it can have a defective trigger connector, in which to much friction can cause the firearm to fail to fire, even when properly lubricated
I put in a GHOST trigger connector, late model 9mm extractor plus a 15lbs spring and all is now well - with the Glock at least
I still have this glock and fire it
I am not afraid of the pistol that shot me!

rjmt

Thanks for sharing....stories like this help us all. Glad you're ok

 

[ZigZagZeke]

You're going WAAY outside your lane here pal.
You have been up on your soapbox once already in this thread.
Now is your chance to shut the f__k up.
You read me ???

Amen.

 

[bbbass]

I gotta go, doc appt. Don't want to miss because they are almost impossible to get. I still need hand surgery and it's not going to happen until the Great Goddess in Salem decides non-emergent surgeries can go ahead.

bbbass, I see your out in LaGrande, but I know a great hand surgeon in Portland
[/QUOTE]

I see that you do. LOL.

It's a simple surgery and the local hand surgeon has a great reputation. It's been approved by the VA, I just need Tri-West (VA Choice admin) to get off their butts and get me on his schedule. I think the delay had to do with the Great Goddess in Salem order against non-emergency surgeries. But I was told yesterday that the surgeon is taking appts again, so I will have to follow up on it.

Take good care,

bb

 

[tactical duck]

RJMT, thank you for the lesson.

I mean this in all sincerity. What I mean is that, no matter how competent we think we are with these things -and I am more than average competent- all it takes (as you said) 10 milliseconds of inattention or incorrect muscle memory.

Next time I pick up a piece, I'll be that much more careful, and think that much more.

FWIW, and I'm not going to argue with anybody about it, it does not sound like a hangfire to me, in the sense of a bad round. It sounds like a mechanism event. Trigger stayed back. The thing was on the ratty edge of releasing the striker. Maybe a burr, maybe FOD, who knows.

Thanks for that refresher, too. Even excellent machines can have hiccups.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[bbbass]

Well, ya'll already know what I think. I've worked extensively on the trigger system of the three Glocks I have had, and watched most all of the JohnnyGlocks.com vids. And I've never seen anything that would make me believe that dirt or a malfunction of an OEM trigger system as designed by Gaston Glock can cause this particular problem.

Change my mind...

 

[Kruel J]

Well, ya'll already know what I think. I've worked extensively on the trigger system of the three Glocks I have had, and watched most all of the JohnnyGlocks.com vids. And I've never seen anything that would make me believe that dirt or a malfunction of an OEM trigger system as designed by Gaston Glock can cause this particular problem.

Change my mind...

Nah, I can't. No way it was a malfunction from dirty internals.

 

[Kruel J]

People: this was not a "hangfire" this was a sloppy error by the shooter, PERHAPS magnified by a hang fire. Within moments of his post he admits he did not service his weapon for more than 5 years. Anybody here drive their pickup/suv/sedan for 5 years without filling the gas tank, changing the oil, greasing wear points?
My purpose is not to pile on the wounded warrior, he's embarrassed enough and will be out thousands of dollars in surgery bills (plus his wife is undoubtedly ragging his butt).
Stop enabling him: the entire thread has veered off-course into 1. bad choice of gun. 2. bad choice of trigger. 3. Bad ammunition. 4. Bad Salesman at gun store??? (jeez, what is that about). This thread is not about BLAME, it is about why something happened and how to prevent it in the future.
Clean your Gun... clean your gun after every time you shoot it. Clean your gun after it has been stored for 7 years. Clean your gun if you drop it in the dirt. Clean your gun after you carry it in your backpack. Clean your gun after you carry it concealed for 30 or 60 days.... CLEAN YOUR GUN... If you carry a gun for self defense how in the world would you possibly not want it to be surgically clean and ready to work flawlessly if your life depended on it... ? STOP enabling anybody who says otherwise. Just focus on the facts... clean your damn gun...

This wasn't due to a dirty gun. I have over 1500 rounds through my Glock 34 without cleaning it. Glocks shoot dirty. Might want to step off that soap box now.

 

[CLee0507]

Trigger stayed back

Yes, as designed, because the round did not fire.....until it did.

 

[bbbass]

This wasn't due to a dirty gun. I have over 1500 rounds through my Glock 34 without cleaning it. Glocks shoot dirty. Might want to step off that soap box now.

Yeah, that rant of his pizzed me off. It's fine for people to believe in cleaning their gun after every range session (or in between shots when breaking in ), but just as many people don't think it is necessary. I didn't appreciate the lecturing tone of that post.

I didn't clean my G19 for 5 years of shooting. The only thing that happened eventually was a failure to go into battery due to a dirty chamber... I've heard/read stories of Glocks firing out of battery, don't see how it is possible, and that's not what the OP described.

 

[bbbass]

In this closeup of a Glock trigger mech, the trigger bar is all the way back, the tail end or hump is below the connector ledge, and the cruciform is all the way back and off the trigger housing shelf. When the cruciform lowers to this point it is pulled down into the trigger housing hollow and the sear of the cruciform has become low enough to release the striker. (I wish I had a photo editor that would allow me to circle the areas I mentioned.)

 

[BlindedByScience]

I saw to many videos where people just changed out the conversion barrel for a 9 conversion - that does not work

Please dont tell my G23 it's not supposed to work. LW conversion barrel and G19 mags and it shoots 9mm flawlessly.

 

[Kruel J]

Please dont tell my G23 it's not supposed to work. LW conversion barrel and G19 mags and it shoots 9mm flawlessly.

Of course it does. Because that's really all it takes. My G22 shoots 9mm all day long with a LW conversion barrel. And G17 mags.

 

[tactical duck]

yup you guys are right. I now realize that trigger back is not a "tell", the reset is on the slide stroke. Thanks for the correction.

 

[trevi]

To the OP:
I did not read all 5 pages but I did read the first 3 and skimmed the last 2. There are some good points by others who mentioned using your injured hand as much as tolerated to prevent atrophy. If you ignore that you could be setting yourself up to having a limp hand, just think of stroke victims who do not follow their therapy excercise and end up losing function on their left or right side.

Your wound post-ER visit looks good. I have cleaned and sutured many GSW to the extremities that were not in need of more specialisation, ie: no bone or severed tendons involved. You are lucky the bullet was a FMJ, they usually just go through flesh cleanly. In my experience, 22LR HP to the extremity were the worst when trying to clean a wound and save the flesh or tendons - they do serious damage. I once treated a guy who was "cleaning" a single-shot .410 shotshell rifle/ shotgun, which took a sizeable chunk of flesh opposite his thumb. I am not sure how to describe that repair.....nonetheless, the OP is correct, all self-inflicted GSW, regardless of its happenstance, requires some heavy paper work, police, psych eval, and more. Becareful shooters, do not give these states with red-flag laws more reasons to confiscate our tools/ toys.

My humble medical advice to you is to follow through with your doctors, ask questions, go to PT/ OT and do your excercises as tolerated. A little pain makes great gain. I do not know what other health situations you may have, but being in your 70s is not the best time to have a GSW because blood flow/ blood pressure tends to decrease and thus the body will have to work harder at compensating for blood loss, ie: your heart works harder - imagine if you were on daily baby aspirin or blood thinners, but fortunately, the muzzle flash cauterised any vessles to prevent more blood loss.

Be well-

 

[rjmt]

Nah, I can't. No way it was a malfunction from dirty internals.

if you remember from my earlier posting, the trigger was in the rear position after the misfire
you know more about the Glock than I do, but doesn't that mean the firing pin had been released?
and it didn't fire until 3 sec after i had my finger out of the trigger guard

as for any comment about lubrication, when I disassembled the Glock in Nov of 2019, it was still fully lubed from storage
the incident happened in Aug, 2019
lubrication didn't disappear while stored in a gun safe on a firearm not used for 5 years
it was cleaned and lubed with EWL before storage
it was stored in the horizontal position
and it shot over 30 rnds before the failure
after the incident, my son went out to recover and clear the Glock
he found the slide forward, trigger cocked and no round in the chamber, remember the mag was already out
I found no dirt or contaminants anywhere on the trigger
believe me, I tried to prove to myself what had caused this

 

[CLee0507]

doesn't that mean the firing pin had been released?

Yes

edited to add: unless something physically broke

 

[Kruel J]

if you remember from my earlier posting, the trigger was in the rear position after the misfire
you know more about the Glock than I do, but doesn't that mean the firing pin had been released?
and it didn't fire until 3 sec after i had my finger out of the trigger guard

as for any comment about lubrication, when I disassembled the Glock in Nov of 2019, it was still fully lubed from storage
the incident happened in Aug, 2019
lubrication didn't disappear while stored in a gun safe on a firearm not used for 5 years
it was cleaned and lubed with EWL before storage
it was stored in the horizontal position
and it shot over 30 rnds before the failure
after the incident, my son went out to recover and clear the Glock
he found the slide forward, trigger cocked and no round in the chamber, remember the mag was already out
I found no dirt or contaminants anywhere on the trigger
believe me, I tried to prove to myself what had caused this

Yes sir. My post was in response to the guy who was lecturing about cleaning.

 

[rjmt]

To the OP:
I did not read all 5 pages but I did read the first 3 and skimmed the last 2. There are some good points by others who mentioned using your injured hand as much as tolerated to prevent atrophy. If you ignore that you could be setting yourself up to having a limp hand, just think of stroke victims who do not follow their therapy excercise and end up losing function on their left or right side.

Your wound post-ER visit looks good. I have cleaned and sutured many GSW to the extremities that were not in need of more specialisation, ie: no bone or severed tendons involved. You are lucky the bullet was a FMJ, they usually just go through flesh cleanly. In my experience, 22LR HP to the extremity were the worst when trying to clean a wound and save the flesh or tendons - they do serious damage. I once treated a guy who was "cleaning" a single-shot .410 shotshell rifle/ shotgun, which took a sizeable chunk of flesh opposite his thumb. I am not sure how to describe that repair.....nonetheless, the OP is correct, all self-inflicted GSW, regardless of its happenstance, requires some heavy paper work, police, psych eval, and more. Becareful shooters, do not give these states with red-flag laws more reasons to confiscate our tools/ toys.

My humble medical advice to you is to follow through with your doctors, ask questions, go to PT/ OT and do your excercises as tolerated. A little pain makes great gain. I do not know what other health situations you may have, but being in your 70s is not the best time to have a GSW because blood flow/ blood pressure tends to decrease and thus the body will have to work harder at compensating for blood loss, ie: your heart works harder - imagine if you were on daily baby aspirin or blood thinners, but fortunately, the muzzle flash cauterised any vessles to prevent more blood loss.

Be well-

thanks, did 6 month of specialised hand therapy
this is the torture device they had me in for weeks, I had to adjust the velcro daily to continually pull my fingers down

 

[ZigZagZeke]

People: this was not a "hangfire" this was a sloppy error by the shooter, PERHAPS magnified by a hang fire. Within moments of his post he admits he did not service his weapon for more than 5 years. Anybody here drive their pickup/suv/sedan for 5 years without filling the gas tank, changing the oil, greasing wear points?
My purpose is not to pile on the wounded warrior, he's embarrassed enough and will be out thousands of dollars in surgery bills (plus his wife is undoubtedly ragging his butt).
Stop enabling him: the entire thread has veered off-course into 1. bad choice of gun. 2. bad choice of trigger. 3. Bad ammunition. 4. Bad Salesman at gun store??? (jeez, what is that about). This thread is not about BLAME, it is about why something happened and how to prevent it in the future.
Clean your Gun... clean your gun after every time you shoot it. Clean your gun after it has been stored for 7 years. Clean your gun if you drop it in the dirt. Clean your gun after you carry it in your backpack. Clean your gun after you carry it concealed for 30 or 60 days.... CLEAN YOUR GUN... If you carry a gun for self defense how in the world would you possibly not want it to be surgically clean and ready to work flawlessly if your life depended on it... ? STOP enabling anybody who says otherwise. Just focus on the facts... clean your damn gun...

As soon as someone describes a mistake they made, or a tragedy they suffered there are always people who immediately want to point out what they did wrong, and in doing so, sometimes they are just being helpful, and sometimes they are implying that it couldn't have happened to them because they know better, are more careful, or are morally superior. This is a defense mechanism as well as virtue signaling. We immediately search for reasons why it couldn't happen to us, and some of us broadcast those reasons in order to feed the fantasy that we are superior.

This event was either a trigger group malfunction or a hang fire. The OP did the right thing and kept the weapon pointed down range. He did the wrong thing when he swept his hand over the muzzle. How many times have each of us made that mistake? The "rules of the road" with firearms are specifically set up so that ONE mistake or malfunction usually doesn't cause serious problems. It is when a combination of malfunctions and mistakes pile up that there are serious consequences. I congratulate the OP on keeping his weapon pointed down range after a misfire. If not, it might have been someone's head instead of his own hand that got shot. He had been making the same mistake for years with no consequences. It took the addition of a misfire/malfunction to give the mistake more serious consequences.

My point here is that the OP made a mistake and paid the consequences. He doesn't need further beating, especially from those of us who also make mistakes from time to time. I applaud the OP for his courage and honesty. Forty years ago I sat in a tailboard briefing at my job site in a very large power plant. We heard about the consequences of unrestrained long hair around a drill press. "Complete evulsion of the scalp" is a phrase that has run through my head every time I have approached a drill press from that day forward. As a power plant tech, I worked with voltages up to 13KV. For many of our procedures a flash suit was required. The smallest mistake can get you instantly killed in a power plant. People were well aware of that fact, and they got safety training daily. Still, people were injured and died. Repeat the cycle of "de-energize, test, apply grounds, test, remove grounds, test, re-energize" enough times, and someday you will miss a step. If you're wearing PPE and follow all the other safety rules you might survive. There's ALWAYS that one time when things don't go right, for EVERY ONE OF US.

Stories like this one serve to help us examine how we do things and if necessary, make changes. Thank you, OP.

 

[rjmt]

Please dont tell my G23 it's not supposed to work. LW conversion barrel and G19 mags and it shoots 9mm flawlessly.

and I heard this from many, but for my early Gen 4 G22, it did not
hot brass to forehead is very annoying and distractive and leaves scars if it goes down the front of your shirt
and the brass was all over the place
with the stock compound 17 lbs spring, it would not even shoot white box 115 gn ammo, just stove piped
yet, I was constantly told it should work, that's why the G22 lived in a gun safe for 5 years
and I was still getting brass to face the morning of the incident
it took a LW 15 lbs spring and 336 ejector to solves BTF and stove pipe on 115 gn white box
and a GHOST connector to smooth out the trigger
and now all brass can be put in a 5 gal bucket sized area