Shot placement or power???

[ilikegunspdx]

Has anyone watched yankee marshals video about shot placement or power? If so how many out there disagree with him like myself?

Yankee Marshall makes a living by pushing people's buttons and invents fake controversy to create clickbait. He has called many respected gun YouTube producers idiots etc just to draw views.

He has falsely accused mrgunsandgear of committing stolen valor. It simply just does not get any lower than that.

He is a scum sucking prostitute scammer and I will never watch any of his trash. U are putting money in his pocket by watching his crap and making threads like this which draw traffic to his videos. Don't feed this scum troll bottom feeder.

 

[OldBroad44]

You need at least minimal levels of both penetration and shot placement. If your ammo is BBs shot from a BB gun, and you are trying to stop an attacking human bad guy, penetration/power is what matters most, as you are unlikely to stop the bad guy however well you place the shot. Penetration/power is the limiting factor. The BB doesn't penetrate well enough to get through the human skull unless the range is close and you hit the skull just right and in certain spots such as eyes, ears, or nose, and mostly not even then.

On the other hand, if you have an atomic bomb, placement is the most important, the limiting factor, because if you hit anywhere near the bad guy he is incinerated. But the bomb does not stop the bad guy if you miss him entirely because you drop the bomb on the wrong city.

If you miss the bad guy entirely, it doesn't matter how much power/penetration you have; placement matters more. If you aim an air bubble at the bad guy and hit him in the head, the bubble pops and the bad guy is still attacking. In that case power/penetration matters more.

Most SD calibers and bullet designs have adequate penetration for most of the situations for which they are intended assuming your placement is good enough to reach vitals. However, if the caliber or bullet design is marginal in power/penetration you can to some extent make up for it with better placement. A .380 might not penetrate heavy clothing and rib bones and flesh well enough to give a reliable stop with a chest shot but might penetrate the skull into the brain and stop bad guy with a head shot. A round nosed bullet may deflect off a windshield. A hp may fail to penetrate a barrier. Most handgun SD calibers and bullet designs are compromises between what we can reasonably carry vs need for enough penetration but not overpenetration.

 

[deadeye]

Yesser!
I cannot discuss what went down here, let's just say he broke some rules that you don't ever break here, the kind that get you a perma-ban! Good riddance says me!

I'm not so sure he was perma banned and I'm not seeing a reason that he would have. Sure looks to me like his account is still open but he hasn't been on for a year.

PlayboyPenguin

PlayboyPenguin is a member of Northwest Firearms

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[ilikegunspdx]

This yankee Marshall POS has no honor and no integrity. Here is mrgunsandgear having to show he served his country honorably because this spineless douchbag lied about him to stir up video views for himself. That is simply beyond the pale. If there was any justice in the world this yankee Marshall POS should get sued for everything he has or worse. And he attacks other respected you tubers in similar ways, making up lies to create controversy.

 

[American123]

A shotgun slug that grazes the skin isn't as debilitating as a .22 lr to the T-zone.

A shotgun slug to the chest cavity will be more debilitating than a .22 lr to the same location.

The internet made incredible amounts of information available to learn from and educate ourselves. It also provided morons the opportunity to share their views across the web. I consider YM a moron.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's like Schrodinger's cat conundrum.. that exists/not-exists as a 12-gauge slug generated mist.

 

[Alexx1401]

This yankee Marshall POS has no honor and no integrity. Here is mrgunsandgear having to show he served his country honorably because this spineless douchbag lied about him to stir up video views for himself. That is simply beyond the pale. If there was any justice in the world this yankee Marshall POS should get sued for everything he has or worse. And he attacks other respected you tubers in similar ways, making up lies to create controversy.

Did the guy ever admit he was wrong? Apologize for claiming this guy did not serve? its one thing to make a mistake. Its a whole different deal to know you did and not have balls to admit you made a mistake?

 

[WillametteWill]

Shoot the most powerful gun that you can shoot accurately. I believe Col. Cooper said something to this effect. Use your pistol to fight to your rifle is another gem spoken by a wiser person than myself.

I think that covers both the power and accuracy angles.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Did the guy ever admit he was wrong? Apologize for claiming this guy did not serve? its one thing to make a mistake. Its a whole different deal to know you did and not have balls to admit you made a mistake?

If it draws more views to his channel/continues the drama or hype, then he probably did. But we don't go around publicly accusing good people as child molesters for example just to draw more views to our channel. It's beyond the pale and only a royal POS does something like this.

 

[Boboclown]

Penguin got hiself banned, and having met him in person, I can understand why! Dude is totally in love with him self, loves to hear him self talk, and BOY howdy if you ever disagree with him, whatta choad!

I'm surprised anyone still watches his rubbish u-tuby crap!

He got banned?

 

[osprey]

Didn't click, but I will take a heaping helping of both Please !

 

[TTSX]

Oh yeah??? Well IV8888 needs to shut up and let Chad talk for a full sentence without interrupting at least once every tenth video.

 

[RVTECH]

Did the guy ever admit he was wrong? Apologize for claiming this guy did not serve?

Yes he did, but it was criticised.

 

[Certaindeaf]

His channel reminds me of The View but it's just him.

 

[The Heretic]

Has anyone watched yankee marshals video about shot placement or power? If so how many out there disagree with him like myself?

If "power"/penetration is adequate to reach vital organs and/or the CNS, then placement is more important than "power". Shooting someone in an extremity may not stop them, even if it is a rifle round, whereas a lesser power handgun round can stop someone shot in the thoracic cavity.

If the "power" comes with increased recoil (e.g., .45 ACP vs. 9x19), then follow up shot accuracy can suffer, as can speed.

I own and shoot 9x19, .40 and .45 ACP in very similar SIG models (229, 226 & 227). The .40 & 9mm have significantly less recoil than the .45 ACP. The 9mm extended mag holds 20 rounds, while the .40 holds 15 and the .45 ACP 14 rounds. With the right ammo, the 9mm would have an advantage over the other calibers, if multiple rounds were needed - especially with multiple targets. There is more to the equation than power & placement.

But I would not feel undergunned with any of those calibers - I just know I am significantly slower with the .45 ACP in the 227.

YMMV

 

[OldBroad44]

Shoot the most powerful gun that you can shoot accurately. I believe Col. Cooper said something to this effect. Use your pistol to fight to your rifle is another gem spoken by a wiser person than myself.

I think that covers both the power and accuracy angles.

Yeah. If you are a soldier in combat. But as I go about my daily business as a civilian not in a combat, Cooper's two dicta are not that useful or sufficient. If I carry a loaded rifle into stores or on the streets of Corvallis I'm going to be spending all my time getting tossed out of stores or interacting with suspicious cops and end up being considered a deranged loony. So the idea that I should always be within a few feet of a rifle all day every day is not workable for me. Even when off in the field doing plant breeding a rifle isn't that workable. There's a lot of walking to do. And squatting and bending over. And specialized tools to carry. And stuff to harvest. And when working with volunteers or employees helping with harvest or other tasks I wouldn't be able to set the rifle down safely because of the presence of gun naive semi-strangers. And I'd be perceived as either a paranoid fruitcake or a military wannabe. And would likely lose most of my volunteers.

So any gun I might have with me routinely needs to be a handgun. I can shoot a .44 mag accurately. However the big .44s I can shoot best I can't conceal well except under outdoors clothes in winter. And since I don't want to spend all my time getting thrown out of stores or dealing with unhappy cops, the handgun needs to be concealed. So Cooper's dictum to (carry and) shoot the most powerful gun you can shoot accurately doesn't work even when limited to just handguns. I can't conceal the most powerful guns I'm able to shoot accurately except in winter and when not in the field doing plant breeding with all its bending over etc.

I do in fact carry the gun that I can shoot best that is concealable that is as heavy as I'm willing to carry routinely. Its a 686 snubby. So this gun represents my own version of Cooper's dictum, compromised to concealable handguns only, and further compromised by my unwillingness to carry routinely in my civilian life an EDC more than about 36 oz. unloaded. If I lived in Portland I might switch to a high capacity 9mm. Or I might start carrying such a gun when in town, in this era of gangs and riots and the increased possibility of multiple assailants. I'm considering it. But it would represent a further compromise of ability to shoot well for higher capacity. I might also switch to a high capacity 9mm as concealed EDC when handgun hunting with a big scoped open-carried .44 mag. If I can get back in good enough shape to handgun hunt again next year.

Basically, military dicta are also all or nothing. Civilian life includes situations in which a nonlethal defense is optimal. These days, since I need a cane anyway, a combo walking/fighting cane is my main nonlethal tool, though it can be used lethality too. In the past my nonlethal capability has included a dog, a flock of aggressive geese, and a duck laying flock, which can at least sound an alarm. Of course tear gas is also a possibility.

 

[EHJ]

Pretty sure it all started with, "shot placement."

 

[WillametteWill]

Yeah. If you are a soldier in combat. But as I go about my daily business as a civilian not in a combat, Cooper's two dicta are not that useful or sufficient. If I carry a loaded rifle into stores or on the streets of Corvallis I'm going to be spending all my time getting tossed out of stores or interacting with suspicious cops and end up being considered a deranged loony. So the idea that I should always be within a few feet of a rifle all day every day is not workable for me. Even when off in the field doing plant breeding a rifle isn't that workable. There's a lot of walking to do. And squatting and bending over. And specialized tools to carry. And stuff to harvest. And when working with volunteers or employees helping with harvest or other tasks I wouldn't be able to set the rifle down safely because of the presence of gun naive semi-strangers. And I'd be perceived as either a paranoid fruitcake or a military wannabe. And would likely lose my most of my volunteers.

So any gun I might have with me routinely needs to be a handgun. I can shoot a .44 mag accurately. However the big .44s I can shoot best I can't conceal well except under outdoors clothes in winter. And since I don't want to spend all my time getting thrown out of stores or dealing with unhappy cops, the handgun needs to be concealed. So Cooper's dictum to (carry and) shoot the most powerful gun you can shoot accurately doesn't work even when limited to just handguns. I can't conceal the most powerful guns I'm able to shoot accurately except in winter and when not in the field doing plant breeding with all its bending over etc.

I do in fact carry the gun that I can shoot best that is concealable that is as heavy as I'm willing to carry routinely. Its a 686 snubby. So this gun represents my own version of Cooper's dictum, compromised to concealable handguns only, and further compromised by my unwillingness to carry routinely in my civilian life an EDC more than about 36 oz. unloaded. If I lived in Portland I might switch to a high capacity 9mm. Or I might start carrying such a gun when in town, in this era of gangs and riots and the increased possibility of multiple assailants. I'm considering it. But it would represent a further compromise of ability to shoot well for higher capacity. I might also switch to a high capacity 9mm as concealed EDC when handgun hunting with a big scoped open-carried .44 mag. If I can get back in good enough shape to handgun hunt again next year.

Basically, military dicta are also all or nothing. Civilian life includes situations in which a nonlethal defense is optimal. These days, since I need a cane anyway, a combo walking/fighting cane is my main nonlethal tool, though it can be used lethality too. In the past my nonlethal capability has included a dog, a flock of aggressive geese, and a duck laying flock, which can at least sound an alarm. Of course tear gas is also a possibility.

Great points of course. I didn't really take Cooper et.al.'s concepts in a vacuum. An encounter outside of the home is extremely likely to be brief so there is little or no point in carrying a rifle, yet I know some that have one in their vehicles...just in case. This is more for home defense in my mind and situation.

As for the power of the gun, agree, concealment is clearly a factor. So are follow up shots. Although my 44 has fantastic accuracy, I'm going to put about three 9mm rounds on target per 44 shot. So agree with you, there are other factors in play, as usual. My belief is that there is no one size fits all for us, be we can learn from the concepts of those who fought and bled before us and modify them to our unique situation. It sounds like you have done this with a sincere and well thought out process. Good on you!!!

 

[RVTECH]

they leave the realm of opinion into arrogant narcissism (my opinion,

Oh I'm sure it's not just your opinion!

I only made it to about the 2:0 myself as he became his 'normal' self.

I watched a few of his videos in the past but found his 'arrogant narcissim' irritating, which is no surprise as it 'parallels' the fact he is a liberal (and if I recall he actually mentioned in one of his videos). Also it's possible his particular 'lifestyle' has an effect on his attitudes and opinions as well.

Actually he strikes me as a little 'creepy' - kind of like the proverbial clown at a kids party but without the makeup.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Great points of course. I didn't really take Cooper et.al.'s concepts in a vacuum. An encounter outside of the home is extremely likely to be brief so there is little or no point in carrying a rifle, yet I know some that have one in their vehicles...just in case. This is more for home defense in my mind and situation.

As for the power of the gun, agree, concealment is clearly a factor. So are follow up shots. Although my 44 has fantastic accuracy, I'm going to put about three 9mm rounds on target per 44 shot. So agree with you, there are other factors in play, as usual. My belief is that there is no one size fits all for us, be we can learn from the concepts of those who fought and bled before us and modify them to our unique situation. It sounds like you have done this with a sincere and well thought out process. Good on you!!!

Note that it is getting a lot easier to carry more powerful guns now. Here is a brn-180 556 with 10.5" barrel in a single-pull-to-deploy sling pack for example. It also fits in an mp5 shoulder holster but I find it too much of a pain to wear that when I can just throw this bag on if needed. Gun functions with brace folded or deployed.

Skip to 1:11 mark in this video to see quick deploy method