shoot or don't shoot.....GRAPHIC......

[justcuz]

Again, look at the BS you all spewing on a public forum based strictly out of misconception, urban myths, and so forth or 'I gotta friend who I like, who is a cop and they wouldn't do that' mentality.

Put the your emotionalism away...and critically think the who, what, why about this released snippet being promoted without any true understanding of what precipitated the encounter in the first place.

I am truly sorry your sensibilities are spun up, but you are beginning to sound like Mom's against everything as they base their rhetoric on half baked misinformation and knee jerk BS to promote their agenda(s).

Finally, think how did this police cam footage get released? WHERE IS the first part of this police vehicle showing the initial contact with the gentleman?

In some states, even with court order, it takes an act of divine intervention, for example the young man who was killed in the windy city for 'allegedly' attacking police was shown from the released cam footage two years after the event to be shot in the back as he was running away from the police!

 

[ma96782]

I'm not taking sides and I harbor no nefarious purpose for posting the video.

It was in an effort to get people (YOU) thinking. I knew going in, that some might be LEOs and some might be gun owners (even CCW holders). Non gun owners.....not so many here, I'm guessing. So then, there are issues at stake and lessons to be learned, for both the public and the police.

Aloha, Mark

 

[American123]

I'm not taking sides and I harbor no nefarious purpose for posting the video.

It was in an effort to get people (YOU) thinking. I knew going in, that some might be LEOs and some might be gun owners (even CCW holders). Non gun owners.....not so many here, I'm guessing. So then, there are issues at stake and lessons to be learned, for both the public and the police.

Aloha, Mark

I've had multiple conversations while I was armed with police where they wanted to talk to me about something they thought I had done (speeding), I do not know if the police were aware of me having a gun on my person, but I did, and I didn't see a need to inform them unless they had asked me to step out of the car.

In all instances I have had interactions with police, I have treated them like people and they have responded in kind. The only people who seem to have a problem getting shot by police are the people who don't want to listen while having in their possession a weapon capable of inflicting deadly force with relative ease.

Don't try and gunfight with police and your chances of being shot and killed go way down.

 

[justcuz]

tis a benefit in the PNW the states do not mandate notification they are armed.
for example, per RCW 9.41.050 Carrying Firearms.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all
times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same
upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.

a handful, e.g., NE, OK, KS, TX, LA, NC who recognize citizen's carry, mandate immediate announcing to law enforcement they are armed. several states tie the state's CC status to the citizen's DL and/or vehicle plate.

 

[justcuz]

I'm not taking sides and I harbor no nefarious purpose for posting the video.

It was in an effort to get people (YOU) thinking. I knew going in, that some might be LEOs and some might be gun owners (even CCW holders). Non gun owners.....not so many here, I'm guessing. So then, there are issues at stake and lessons to be learned, for both the public and the police.

Aloha, Mark

the question still exists who, what, where, when, and the big question(s) why was this police vehicle's cam released and where is the initial contact to see how the deceased was initially treated instead of starting the snippet at the point the law officer had firearm drawn!

 

[HB of CJ]

Respectfully ...

The first couple of shots stopped the lethal threat. The last 10 or so shoots were excessive. Had that been private citizens shooting that guy, the private citizens would have been charged with murder by death by a dozen unnecessary gun shots?

Is my above true and valid? The answer I feel is yes. So ... what does that tell us? The police are roving death squads? Can the cops just up and kill anybody they wish ... when they wish? All because the guy would not drop the "gun"? Yes and yes.

The cops can tell you to stop a perfectly legal act? And when you do not stop that legal act the Cops can up and kill your arse? Yep! So many mistakes made. We need some sort of non lethal take down. The guy screwed up. The cops screwed up.

So what did we see? I saw an idiot citizen holding a gun? A small gun? The video is not clear to me. He did not comply with requests from the cops. It was to me like a Japanese stage play when all the motions are prearranged and exaggerated. Yep.

My opinion? The cops should have absorbed some sort of lethal presentation of the "gun" by the stupid guy. Yep. Sorry everybody. The cops MUST absorb more real danger before they unleash all those shots and hits. Murder by cop. That was inevitable.

If cops are not willing to take it, then get another job. Also why were the cops just standing there out in the open like that? Stupid. Where was their hard cover? The three tasers early on? Why no long guns? Stupid Cops. They made mistakes. Just me.

Respectfully ...

 

[ma96782]

STORY TIME:

After leaving a bar in OR. I was stopped by a Portland PD officer. Of course I wasn't drunk. But, I knew why I was targeted. LOL....officially because of a traffic infraction.

Anyway, I was taken aback by the officer's inquiry about if I was carrying. Really? Did my carrying have anything to do with the initial reason for the stop? Or was it, "fishing?" What's next? Can I search your car? Refuse and I'll call for a dog?

My response was: Humm.......why are you asking?

His response: Well, it says that you have a WA CCW. (Guessing a computer check via DL)

My response: Yes, I do. But, this isn't WA. So, I'm not carrying. That would be illegal.

Things quickly de-escalated. LOL.

Aloha, Mark

 

[etrain16]

actually:
" U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announces the Justice Department's civil rights investigation into the Ferguson, Mo. Police department on Sep. 4, 2014. Under Holder, the department has reached settlements in 15 such cases.

In Cleveland, where Attorney General Eric Holder appeared in December to decry a longstanding pattern of "unreasonable and unnecessary use of force" by the police, he neglected to mention that the Justice Department had investigated the city's police a decade before. Justice officials settled that earlier case after the city promised to revise its policing methods.

Other recurring problems have emerged in police departments in Miami, New Orleans and New Jersey, all of which had promised to carry out major changes in response to Justice Department investigations that turned up evidence of discriminatory policing.

One of its more-noted successes, with the Los Angeles Police Department, began with an inquiry in the summer of 1996. It then took almost five years of investigation, data analysis and negotiation before a consent decree was reached. The court-supervised monitoring then continued for more than a decade until early 2013.

Holder's Justice Department has charged more than 400 law-enforcement and corrections officers with various violations of constitutional rights in recent years." The Big Problems With Police That Washington Can't Fix

please do not forget Albuquerque PD under DoJ investigation.

hummm, I am seeing a trend are you or do you truly believe these are truly isolated incidents?

And your attempt at discrediting my understanding of a police state is quite amusing.

All that highlights is that in cities where the majority control is in the hands of the Democrats, they have more problems with their police force. Maybe if we got more Republicans in office in those problem cities they might actually clean things up. You cherry pick a few, but there are many, many more that aren't a problem.

And citing Eric Holder? The nations top most corrupt cop? Sorry if I don't care much for anything done by the guy that sold weapons to drug dealers in Mexico. He's the textbook definition of corrupt.

Consider this - there are approximately 18,000 law enforcement agencies, state, local and federal, across the united states. There are over 1,100,000 sworn officers across those agencies. You highlight over 400 officers. Out of 1.1M officers, that's not even 1/2 of 1% of all officers. Hardly evidence of a police state or of a wave of bad officers. Sorry, but the numbers don't support your position.

 

[justcuz]

event took place in Oct 17.
1. perp survived...
2. officer on right is in fact female
3. scenario reads like an attempt at officer assisted suicide, therefore good chance the perp was not in his right mind or on something.
4. IMHO the snippet was released to prove exoneration of the law enforcement's actions to mitigate possibly civil unrest.
quote:
WARRINGTON, Florida (WKRG) - Details provided in the arrest report of Demetric Denario Carter offer a glimpse into the events that led to Escambia County Deputies shooting him Friday morning. According to the report, Carter entered the Warrington Bank around 9:00 Friday morning and told one of the employees to call the police "because he didn't want to take anything out on them." The report continues that he asked the teller to have police "meet him on the back road behind the bank."

When Deputy Patrick Roberts arrived in the area, he began looking for Carter and identified a person matching Carter description on Commerce Street. When Deputy Roberts approached Carter, he began to walk away from the deputy "concealing his hands from view", according to the report. Deputy Roberts repeatedly ordered Carter to stop and show his hands, to which Carter refused to do and stated to the deputy "I have a gun."

Two more deputies, Crista Pope and Ronald Busbee arrived at this point, according to the report, and both also ordered Carter to stop and get on the ground. unquote.
State Attorney: Escambia County, FL officer involved shooting justified

interesting...police admit hit him with a tasar and the perp fired...rof...of course, that much power causes the body to involuntarily convulse causing uncontrolled clutching of the hands...

20 shots at close range...perp survived...worrisome at best.

btw, the news report is different than the state attorneys investigation.
https://mgtvwkrg.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/ecso-shooting.pdf

 

[etrain16]

Again, look at the BS you all spewing on a public forum based strictly out of misconception, urban myths, and so forth or 'I gotta friend who I like, who is a cop and they wouldn't do that' mentality.

Put the your emotionalism away...and critically think the who, what, why about this released snippet being promoted without any true understanding of what precipitated the encounter in the first place.

I am truly sorry your sensibilities are spun up, but you are beginning to sound like Mom's against everything as they base their rhetoric on half baked misinformation and knee jerk BS to promote their agenda(s).

Finally, think how did this police cam footage get released? WHERE IS the first part of this police vehicle showing the initial contact with the gentleman?

In some states, even with court order, it takes an act of divine intervention, for example the young man who was killed in the windy city for 'allegedly' attacking police was shown from the released cam footage two years after the event to be shot in the back as he was running away from the police!

If you want to accuse me of spouting urban myths or misconception, then back it up with some facts, otherwise you're attacking me, and not the argument. And where am I getting emotional? I'm not calling you any names, but I am challenging your position, because I think you're wrong.

Keep the personal stuff to yourself as it comes close to violating rule #1 on this forum.

 

[HB of CJ]

When they stop you for anything, sometimes real and sometimes imaginary, the dispatcher runs your license plates and the fact that you had a WA CCP would come up with any other additional information. He knew you had the permit before he approached your car.

OR CCL law and court case rulings have determined that we in OR are not required to tell the stopping officer we have an OR CCL. He will already know. He also can NOT ASK if you have a CCL license unless he has very good probable cause. PC. No legal exceptions.

He can ask you to get out of the car if he has PC. He can ask to search your car if he has PC. You have the right and duty to refuse the search without a warrant. I think at that time if he is really sure you are a crook, then he can call in the dogs to do a outside sniff?

No inside search without a search warrant. I think I have this correct. If not, please correct me.

 

[justcuz]

All that highlights is that in cities where the majority control is in the hands of the Democrats, they have more problems with their police force. Maybe if we got more Republicans in office in those problem cities they might actually clean things up. You cherry pick a few, but there are many, many more that aren't a problem.

And citing Eric Holder? The nations top most corrupt cop? Sorry if I don't care much for anything done by the guy that sold weapons to drug dealers in Mexico. He's the textbook definition of corrupt.

Consider this - there are approximately 18,000 law enforcement agencies, state, local and federal, across the united states. There are over 1,100,000 sworn officers across those agencies. You highlight over 400 officers. Out of 1.1M officers, that's not even 1/2 of 1% of all officers. Hardly evidence of a police state or of a wave of bad officers. Sorry, but the numbers don't support your position.

and laying the blame on a particular party, really you truly went there!

roflmao

 

[ma96782]

the question still exists who, what, where, when, and the big question(s) why was this police vehicle's cam released and where is the initial contact to see how the deceased was initially treated instead of starting the snippet at the point the law officer had firearm drawn!

YES. If I were sitting on a JURY, I'd like to know more too. But at this point. We got, what we got.

Even the Rodney King video (as released by the TV media folks) had me wondering stuff. But, that's another story....... Remember: 1st trial, ended with an acquittal. While the 2nd one found several police officers Guilty.

BTW.....I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your input. IMHO, you've been helpful to the conversation.

Aloha, Mark

 

[etrain16]

and laying the blame on a particular party, really you truly went there!

roflmao

Darn right I did - because there is a demonstrated pattern of mismanagement in predominantly Democrat controlled cities. It is worth mentioning, because there is truth there. If you want to deny it out of hand, you're certainly welcome to. But political leadership is directly related to how these agencies are managed - that can't be denied. Considering I live in such a place, I see it first hand. And are you just going to ignore the pattern of which party is in leadership in those places with the biggest problems with the police? An honest evaluation of the situation requires looking at all factors, starting with the folks at the top. There is a pattern there.

 

[11Charlie]

Well this thread has gotten wordy!

 

[P7M13]

 

[ZigZagZeke]

actually:
" U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announces the Justice Department's civil rights investigation into the Ferguson, Mo. Police department on Sep. 4, 2014. Under Holder, the department has reached settlements in 15 such cases.

In Cleveland, where Attorney General Eric Holder appeared in December to decry a longstanding pattern of "unreasonable and unnecessary use of force" by the police, he neglected to mention that the Justice Department had investigated the city's police a decade before. Justice officials settled that earlier case after the city promised to revise its policing methods.

Other recurring problems have emerged in police departments in Miami, New Orleans and New Jersey, all of which had promised to carry out major changes in response to Justice Department investigations that turned up evidence of discriminatory policing.

One of its more-noted successes, with the Los Angeles Police Department, began with an inquiry in the summer of 1996. It then took almost five years of investigation, data analysis and negotiation before a consent decree was reached. The court-supervised monitoring then continued for more than a decade until early 2013.

Holder's Justice Department has charged more than 400 law-enforcement and corrections officers with various violations of constitutional rights in recent years." The Big Problems With Police That Washington Can't Fix

please do not forget Albuquerque PD under DoJ investigation.

hummm, I am seeing a trend are you or do you truly believe these are truly isolated incidents?

And your attempt at discrediting my understanding of a police state is quite amusing.

I wouldn't hold up anything done by Eric (Contempt of Congress) Holder as an example of anything but corruption here. Also, I think you've mistaken a community of people who communicate, cooperate, and understand each other for a debate forum where hot-heads insult each other. We try to all be friends here, even when our opinions differ.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

tis a benefit in the PNW the states do not mandate notification they are armed.
for example, per RCW 9.41.050 Carrying Firearms.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all
times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same
upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.

a handful, e.g., NE, OK, KS, TX, LA, NC who recognize citizen's carry, mandate immediate announcing to law enforcement they are armed. several states tie the state's CC status to the citizen's DL and/or vehicle plate.

Oregon being one of those latter states listed. The Oregon state cop already knows you have a CHL before your car stops rolling.

 

[ma96782]

When they stop you for anything, sometimes real and sometimes imaginary, the dispatcher runs your license plates and the fact that you had a WA CCP would come up with any other additional information. He knew you had the permit before he approached your car.

Right or wrong.....I still find it disturbing that:

1) Someone was adding/linking my WA CCW info. via a lic. plate inquiry (or a DL inquiry). Humm....the PD (or Govt) thinks that CCW is important "officer safety" information.
2) Important.....because, having a CCW = Evil Person?
3) My son has my driven car. Does that mean that cops assume that I'm driving....until proven otherwise?
4) When will the PD (or Govt) add other seemingly important information to a simple lic. plate check? Information such as.....

• That I've been run through the state's BGC system.
• My business lic./occupation info.
• That I'm an NRA member. Or the member of any other organization.
  
• That I subscribe to certain magazines.
• That I do internet searches for _________.
• That I vote and maybe even how I vote.

Mind you that, I'm NOT saying, that the CCW files shouldn't be accessed separately.

My objection is about the automatic linking of information. I see it as opening the door to possible misuse and/or that even more information can/will be added. Hummmm....under the excuse of the Govt's legitimate interest...."Officer Safety." Rrrrright.

LOL...... You have nothing to fear IF you're not doing anything illegal.

Aloha, Mark

PS...for me: having a CCW is almost as good as saying....."Vetted Good Guy." Of course....not all are.

 

[clearconscience]

What took them so long?

And the Officer on the far side was not smart for running towards the crossfire.