Selling/trading without a BOS?

[EMP9596]

As a dealer in arms I made a choice, in Our Sport to deal with the people in my surroundings. I sold weapons to Sports men - Lawyers -insurance agents - and old lady's.
I ran every gun number received and sold. I kept three logs one for purchase after Police notification, One for sales of what went out the door. And one copy for me - you never know.
FYI = A Sportsmen gave me a phone call last elk season. Wile Elk hunting he walked away from his rifle. Left it on the landing and drove off. By the time he got back it was gone.
He didn't have the SR#s from the late 1970s and asked if I did. I looked in my personal log gave him the numbers. The owner ran a news paper add with the SR#s and he got a hit. The person who found it read the Classifieds, Contacted Lou and the firearm was returned to its rightful owner.

As for your statement about {every other person on this forum} I am glad they all contacted you personally and gave you that information. You are the boards full authority. For that reason I will put you on my friends list and try to do better.

And this Your Quote: [Honest people trust others and assume other people are honest.]

I voting for someone other than you next year!

You are saying you you used your personal logs to ID a weapon?

If you were an FFL... Why not your filed 4473's and your Bound Book as they are more accurate in case you transposed a number in the keeping of the personals.

 

[Silver Hand]

You are saying you you used your personal logs to ID a weapon?

If you were an FFL... Why not your filed 4473's and your Bound Book as they are more accurate in case you transposed a number in the keeping of the personals.

It was retired previously.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

I thought the only way to run a firearm is in the presence of police (as they will confiscate it immediately if it is)? Would you go back empty handed and say you want your money back?

There is a number for the OSP for checking the serial number of a gun. No need for them to be present.
You can also run a background check when doing a sale just like an FFL if you wish. There is the standard fee and they WILL ask you for the exact location of the transaction.

 

[df662]

I have always sold all my firearms with a bill of sale.

Sold a handgun to a coworker about 2 years ago. He had it stolen out of his house during a party. He never reported it stolen (I have no idea why.....). The handgun was used in a crime by the person that stole it. The firearm was purchased by me from a gunshop so I was the person on the paperwork as the owner (4473 form). The police came to question me.... I was glad I had the bill of sale to show them I was no longer the owner of that firearm. Im sure that after investigation they would have realized that anyways but I am also sure that me having the bill of sale saved me a few headaches and probably saved the officers some time in establishing their next lead which was the coworker that purchased the gun from me.


I also do understand why some people do not want a bill of sale in a private transaction. It is absolutely their right to not want bills of sale but it is also my right to request it

 

[EMP9596]

I have always sold all my firearms with a bill of sale.

Sold a handgun to a coworker about 2 years ago. He had it stolen out of his house during a party. He never reported it stolen (I have no idea why.....). The handgun was used in a crime by the person that stole it. The firearm was purchased by me from a gunshop so I was the person on the paperwork as the owner (4473 form). The police came to question me.... I was glad I had the bill of sale to show them I was no longer the owner of that firearm. Im sure that after investigation they would have realized that anyways but I am also sure that me having the bill of sale saved me a few headaches and probably saved the officers some time in establishing their next lead which was the coworker that purchased the gun from me.


I also do understand why some people do not want a bill of sale in a private transaction. It is absolutely their right to not want bills of sale but it is also my right to request it

If you would not have had a BoS there would of been a chance of being 'detained'. Same situation as yours happened in Texas a few years back to a woman who had a hand gun stolen, used in a felony crime. She spent the night in jail till everything got processed by the police.

 

[Silver Hand]

It was retired previously.

You are saying you you used your personal logs to ID a weapon?

If you were an FFL... Why not your filed 4473's and your Bound Book as they are more accurate in case you transposed a number in the keeping of the personals.

If I was not clear when an FFL is retired you send all of your accumulated material into the Feds. In Books, Out Books, Oregon once had its own carbon copy pistol record keeping book before the phone in background check, it went. fingerprints records, yellow and white purchase forms each one is numbered and it is a good idea not to have the dog eat one, that is the paper you get to see.. They do what they do with it once they receive it.

 

[MarkAd]

Obama has papers, Still doesnt make him legal.

"Get a federal ID - Drivers license"
This is not a federal ID, so Silverhand is either old and forgetful or he is full of crap. As an example I have had ohio, california, washington and guamian DL's. Not one of them said Federal anything on it.

 

[Silver Hand]

"Get a federal ID - Drivers license"
This is not a federal ID, so Silverhand is either old and forgetful or he is full of crap. As an example I have had ohio, california, washington and guamian DL's. Not one of them said Federal anything on it.

If you have more than one ID in your possession you can go to Jail and that is a fact!
Thanks for letting us know.

 

[EMP9596]

If I was not clear when an FFL is retired you send all of your accumulated material into the Feds. In Books, Out Books, Oregon once had its own carbon copy pistol record keeping book before the phone in background check, it went. fingerprints records, yellow and white purchase forms each one is numbered and it is a good idea not to have the dog eat one, that is the paper you get to see.. They do what they do with it once they receive it.

Got ya... you said 'Retired" not "Surrendered." I was not trying to discredit you. You actually were referring to: Records to the ATF Out of Business Records Center.

We are on the same page now and the dog eat'n the yellows and whites is a good one.

eace:

 

[Silver Hand]

I hate to admit it but the guy with the three Id's a few posts down might have something about 1/2 right

 

[lcb97269]

Just looking for your take....I passed on a purchaser that was interested in a pistol i had for sell...because he/she was adamant about "paperless" trades or purchases. I myself would not sell the pistol without some form of release of responsibility for said firearm. Would you complete a sale - with someone you don't know - without a BOS?

Just curious as to why anyone who be so adverse to having one in a transaction - especially with a firearm.

I buy and sell guns without a bill of sale, unless the other party wants one. Conversation is more important to me. I won't sell or by from someone who is flaky. If you are really paranoid about sales or buys, then try to learn how to judge character or just stop dealing with strangers. A BOS, may be a legal defense for someone using a gun you bought or sold if something goes south, but it is no guarantee that a jury will hold you harmless, if that is your concern.

Look at it this way. If you sell a car and the buyer doesn't register it (BOS or not) and racks up a bunch of parking tickets and abandoning the car, who gets to prove they were not the owner at their own cost? The seller.

Flip it around. If you Buy a car and the racked up a bunch of parking tickets before the sale, who gets to prove they were not responsible at their own cost? The buyer.

A BOS may protect you in the long run, but at what cost to you if the deal goes south?

Let the buyer beware - Caveat emptor.

Let the seller beware - Caveat venditor.

 

[Silver Hand]

I buy and sell guns without a bill of sale, unless the other party wants one. Conversation is more important to me. I won't sell or by from someone who is flaky. If you are really paranoid about sales or buys, then try to learn how to judge character or just stop dealing with strangers. A BOS, may be a legal defense for someone using a gun you bought or sold if something goes south, but it is no guarantee that a jury will hold you harmless, if that is your concern.

Look at it this way. If you sell a car and the buyer doesn't register it (BOS or not) and racks up a bunch of parking tickets and abandoning the car, who gets to prove they were not the owner at their own cost? The seller.

Flip it around. If you Buy a car and the racked up a bunch of parking tickets before the sale, who gets to prove they were not responsible at their own cost? The buyer.

A BOS may protect you in the long run, but at what cost to you if the deal goes south?

Let the buyer beware - Caveat emptor.

Let the seller beware - Caveat venditor.

It comes down to the math most of the time. Day and date on the receipt A federal ID and run the numbers. You and the selling party are then separated by time and date.

 

[lcb97269]

Federal ID? That would be a passport. I would bet that most people don't have one. And as for math, I made my living with it for nearly 4 decades.

 

[Silver Hand]

A drivers license is your Federal Identification number.
You get to use it any ware you go.

 

[Silver Hand]

Smile

 

[lcb97269]

I try to avoid flying because I don't like being groped by fat guys with an accent.

Regardless, you tell me what federal ID is other then a passport. Unless you work for the fed, it doesn't exist.

 

[Redcap]

I always buy/sell/trade without a bill of sale. It is unnecessary.

 

[Silver Hand]

I try to avoid flying because I don't like being groped by fat guys with an accent.

Regardless, you tell me what federal ID is other then a passport. Unless you work for the fed, it doesn't exist.

A drivers license is your Federal Identification number.
You get to use it any ware you go.

 

[Silver Hand]

I always buy/sell/trade without a bill of sale. It is unnecessary.

Cool

 

[lcb97269]

Actually, a drivers license is state ID. It might comply with fed standards but not all states give a rats *** about fed standards. And if the feds had real standards, everyone would need a valid ID to vote. Being poor is a lame excuse. You need ID to get food stamps/welfare/living assistance. If you need it for that, then you should need it to vote. I also don't believe those who get any form of welfare should be allowed to vote because they will just vote for those who will give them more of what they never earned. Call me callas.