Selling/trading without a BOS?

[Silver Hand]

Nwcid - your question and my best answer

What is a "Every gun I have owned or ever sold has a link to the A.F.T. department in Washington, DC"?[/QUOTE]

Already answered that.

 

[strick]

I know everyone is placing their .02 cents, so here I go. A BOS for the seller(being a first tiem gun owner myself) to me is not a bad thing, it would seem to me if I sold a firearm that was later used in a crime having a BOS helps you show you no longer own the firearm at that date and gives them a trail to start following.

 

[Zepoll]

I know everyone is placing their .02 cents, so here I go. A BOS for the seller(being a first tiem gun owner myself) to me is not a bad thing, it would seem to me if I sold a firearm that was later used in a crime having a BOS helps you show you no longer own the firearm at that date and gives them a trail to start following.

Agreed. And listing "Bill of sale and Drivers License required" in your ad also helps weed out any unsavory types who are looking to do illegal things with a gun that was originally purchased under your name.

 

[Silver Hand]

Someone please correct me if Im wrong here but I believe the charge is 'Knowingly' receiving stolen goods.
If you buy a used car from Jon Q. Dealership and a year later get pulled over and the LEO finds the care was reported stolen, I dont think you are on the hook for any crime unless they can somehow prove that you knew it was stolen when you purchased it.

I always post sales requirements including BOS when I post for sale online. I dont think anyone has ever asked me to do a sale otherwise.
Your property, your terms. If you prefer a BOS or not, its not my place to judge you one way or the other for it.

Just give the numbers to the state Before you put down the money for your purchase. You might put a crack head in jail and get a sportsmen his possessions back.

 

[Silver Hand]

I know everyone is placing their .02 cents, so here I go. A BOS for the seller(being a first tiem gun owner myself) to me is not a bad thing, it would seem to me if I sold a firearm that was later used in a crime having a BOS helps you show you no longer own the firearm at that date and gives them a trail to start following.

Get a federal ID - Drivers license from whom you buy it from. Put the Drivers license numbers day and date on the bill of sale, look at the signature. Have them sign the bill of sale.
All after you run the gun numbers. That is a pat receipt or bill of sale.

Personally I don't care what others do. Just the people interested in keeping the guns they purchase and staying out of trouble at the same time.

 

[Silver Hand]

Just looking for your take....I passed on a purchaser that was interested in a pistol i had for sell...because he/she was adamant about "paperless" trades or purchases. I myself would not sell the pistol without some form of release of responsibility for said firearm. Would you complete a sale - with someone you don't know - without a BOS?

Just curious as to why anyone who be so adverse to having one in a transaction - especially with a firearm.

You did the right thing. That is what counts

 

[Silver Hand]

As stated it depends on what you are comfortable with.

I am comfortable following Federal and State law so I have NEVER sold a gun with a bill of sale. The only guns I have bought with BOS are from dealers.

Yes I just (less then a month ago) went though a situation where a gun I had in my possession for years was listed as stolen. I guarantee I am not a felon now or at any point. I did not go to jail. It did not cost me a dime. On top of that the gun was not reported stolen until over 6 months after I had the gun so no matter how many checks had been run on it when I got it there would have been no report.

Even after all that I still standby the above.

Do you have the case number from the police report? I would like to read it!
If not whom was the dealer you purchased from?

 

[MP Sgt]

A Brotherhood of Steel?

 

[Nwcid]

Do you have the case number from the police report? I would like to read it!
If not whom was the dealer you purchased from?

I will not release the case number because it contains personal information about people other then myself and I have no right to do that. The gun was purchased from a private party.

The real simple answer is I did not do anything illegal so they have NOTHING to charge me with. I know it sounds hard to believe but the first thing LEO does is investigate. Investigate means to get the the story then decide how to handle it from there. So during the LEO's initial investigation it was determined that I was a victim also. Pretty hard to arrest a victim.

I know it is hard to believe that LEO actually dont just go arresting people and asking questions later. Well at least they dont in Washington County, OR where this took place.

I think I will take you up on your offer in your first post. Have a nice day.

 

[Rascals]

Obama has papers, Still doesnt make him legal.

 

[Silver Hand]

I will not release the case number because it contains personal information about people other then myself and I have no right to do that. The gun was purchased from a private party.

The real simple answer is I did not do anything illegal so they have NOTHING to charge me with. I know it sounds hard to believe but the first thing LEO does is investigate. Investigate means to get the the story then decide how to handle it from there. So during the LEO's initial investigation it was determined that I was a victim also. Pretty hard to arrest a victim.

I know it is hard to believe that LEO actually dont just go arresting people and asking questions later. Well at least they dont in Washington County, OR where this took place.

I think I will take you up on your offer in your first post. Have a nice day.

I always have a nice day! ''You can run but you can't hide''

 

[hermannr]

You have to remember, there are perfectly law abiding citizens that do not want the government to know any more of their business than is absolutely necessary. These types of people would not want a paper trail to them...doesn't mean they are planning to do something illegal, it only means they value their privacy.

As another person stated, I don't sell guns, ever...buy yes, but never sell. I have given some away to my children, but none of my guns are for sale.

That said...should something happen and someone was to purchase a weapon from me I would ask if they are a prohibited person, and where they lived...the state they live in is sufficient... If they answered they lived in WA and that they were not a prohibited person, I would then sell the weapon to them, with, or without a BOS...whatever way made them comfortable...I would even give them a history of the weapon if that is what they wanted...none of that is required, but some people like to know how You came by the weapon yourself. Most of the firearms I have, I obtained prior to 1968 anyway.

 

[Silver Hand]

When I was a kid a person even a child posing as an adult, could purchase a gun in NY from a TX news paper. In hi school most of us did, pistols and rifles.
I maintained my FFL for many years, almost forty. Laws have become so complicated and with other considerations involving gun liability I was pleased to retire it without a single SR# number misplaced.
Laws are very effective when it comes to weeding things out.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Just give the numbers to the state Before you put down the money for your purchase. You might put a crack head in jail and get a sportsmen his possessions back.

This should help clear a few things up.
ORS 164.095(emphasis mine)
"A personcommits theft by receiving if the person receives, retains, conceals or disposes of property of another knowing or having good reason to know that the property wasthe subject of a theft."

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Just give the numbers to the state Before you put down the money for your purchase. You might put a crack head in jail and get a sportsmen his possessions back.

This should help clear a few things up.

ORS 164.095(emphasis mine)

"A person commits theft by receiving if the person receives, retains, conceals or disposes of property of another knowing or having good reason to know that the property wasthe subject of a theft."

 

[Swedish K]

On a side note - a co-worker had given one of his pistols to an uncle about 25 years ago. The gun was stolen about 5 years later and even though the gun was not in the system as stolen (the uncle didn't have record of the SN) the gun was returned to my co-worker as the last registered owner - from Chicago of all places. They shipped it to an FFL of his choice for return. As I understand it the gun was in the possession of a drug dealer when it was recovered and once convicted they ran the numbers to determine ownership. While I think he was amazingly lucky to get it back I suppose this is one case where registration did someone some good.

 

[hermannr]

Just give the numbers to the state Before you put down the money for your purchase. You might put a crack head in jail and get a sportsmen his possessions back.

You really don't think very highly of your fellow gun owners, do you? You say that you held an FFL? and just how many "crack heads" tried to sell you a weapon, verses how many "honest" customers did you have?

You are an insult to every other person on this forum. Honest people trust others and assume other people are honest.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Here's my $0.02, FWIW. If I buy from someone either I don't know or isn't well known, I use a detailed BOS that says the firearm isn't stolen, and if it is I can seek a refund. If someone refuses, I dont buy.

When I sell, I leave it up to the buyer, since there isn't really any tie back to me.

I thought the only way to run a firearm is in the presence of police (as they will confiscate it immediately if it is)? Would you go back empty handed and say you want your money back?

 

[Silver Hand]

You really don't think very highly of your fellow gun owners, do you? You say that you held an FFL? and just how many "crack heads" tried to sell you a weapon, verses how many "honest" customers did you have?

You are an insult to every other person on this forum. Honest people trust others and assume other people are honest.

As a dealer in arms I made a choice, in Our Sport to deal with the people in my surroundings. I sold weapons to Sports men - Lawyers -insurance agents - and old lady's.
I ran every gun number received and sold. I kept three logs one for purchase after Police notification, One for sales of what went out the door. And one copy for me - you never know.
FYI = A Sportsmen gave me a phone call last elk season. Wile Elk hunting he walked away from his rifle. Left it on the landing and drove off. By the time he got back it was gone.
He didn't have the SR#s from the late 1970s and asked if I did. I looked in my personal log gave him the numbers. The owner ran a news paper add with the SR#s and he got a hit. The person who found it read the Classifieds, Contacted Lou and the firearm was returned to its rightful owner.

As for your statement about {every other person on this forum} I am glad they all contacted you personally and gave you that information. You are the boards full authority. For that reason I will put you on my friends list and try to do better.

And this Your Quote: [Honest people trust others and assume other people are honest.]

I voting for someone other than you next year!

 

[Zepoll]

bigboy67: Here's my $0.02, FWIW. If I buy from someone either I don't know or isn't well known, I use a detailed BOS that says the firearm isn't stolen, and if it is I can seek a refund. If someone refuses, I dont buy.

I thought the only way to run a firearm is in the presence of police (as they will confiscate it immediately if it is)? Would you go back empty handed and say you want your money back?

And if you go looking to get your money back and they won't give it.. then what? It's not like you can turn them into the Better Business Bureau.

You think someone who sold you a stolen gun is going to go by the honor system?

When I sell I advertise Bill of Sale and Drivers License required. When I buy, I don't require anything. I have my PM's that show dates and times that prove that I did not have possession of the gun when it was reported stolen. It also shows how I came about owning the gun as well. And I have no problem signing a bill of sale if requested of me.

I will go on to say that the Anti's read this stuff as well and it is in our own best interests to be good stewards in our community. IF we don't adequately police ourselves, and trouble stories make the news, then we open the door for people to say, "Wow... I guess we DO need more regulation regarding gun ownership, record keeping, transaction recording and so forth."

Do what you feel is right. All I'm saying is if I don't keep my room clean, then Mom or Dad will come in and clean it for me... generally in haste, and they might throw out some things that I would have kept.