Selling/trading without a BOS?

[mpperales]

Just looking for your take....I passed on a purchaser that was interested in a pistol i had for sell...because he/she was adamant about "paperless" trades or purchases. I myself would not sell the pistol without some form of release of responsibility for said firearm. Would you complete a sale - with someone you don't know - without a BOS?

Just curious as to why anyone who be so adverse to having one in a transaction - especially with a firearm.

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[Dayu]

Just looking for your take....I passed on a purchaser that was interested in a pistol i had for sell...because he/she was adamant about "paperless" trades or purchases. I myself would not sell the pistol without some form of release of responsibility for said firearm. Would you complete a sale - with someone you don't know - without a BOS?

Just curious as to why anyone who be so adverse to having one in a transaction - especially with a firearm.

You could turn the question around and ask why anyone would be so adamant about having one. I've done sales with unknown people (other than a look at their ODL) without paper, have done sales with people I know WITH paper, and have never been the one requiring it over the years. If the guy's a flake, all the paper in the world isn't going to help, and if he's a good guy, why lose the sale over paper. But I'm not adamant - if my buyer or seller wants paper, I'll be happy to do so.

 

[Izzy]

You could turn the question around and ask why anyone would be so adamant about having one. I've done sales with unknown people (other than a look at their ODL) without paper, have done sales with people I know WITH paper, and have never been the one requiring it over the years. If the guy's a flake, all the paper in the world isn't going to help, and if he's a good guy, why lose the sale over paper. But I'm not adamant - if my buyer or seller wants paper, I'll be happy to do so.

Well said!

 

[Mark W.]

You can look at it anyway you want. But it all boils down to theFirearm is YOURS and YOU can chose to sell it to whom ever and with what ever conditions you want. They can chose to meet those requirements or walk away.

trying to figure out why or how another person thinks is a waste of time.

 

[bigboy67]

Here's my $0.02, FWIW. If I buy from someone either I don't know or isn't well known, I use a detailed BOS that says the firearm isn't stolen, and if it is I can seek a refund. If someone refuses, I dont buy.

When I sell, I leave it up to the buyer, since there isn't really any tie back to me.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I do what is legally required, nothing more, nothing less. I leave the option of a BOS to the other party; no big deal. If the authorities wanted to track a sale due to an 'incident' it would be no problem for them anyway. Funny how people think they are cloaked in terms of privacy on the internet. "I sold the pistol to Bigboy" - It would take them maybe 30 minutes to determine who BigBoy is, his address, DL number, credit history, number of guns bought from a dealer, last time he farted ......

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

This has been discussed many times.

If you aren't comfortable with it don't do it.

 

[Zepoll]

You can always just print off your PM's and keep them in your safe. If it hits the fan, then you have proof of the transaction.

 

[Silver Hand]

Nothing personal.
First If I buy a used gun I run the numbers through the State police. I Do not want to spend time in jail for receiving stolen goods and being in possession of a stolen firearm.
Every gun I have owned or ever sold has a link to the A.F.T. department in Washington, DC. If you buy it stolen and you get found out, one thing is for sure your are an instant Felon. Furthermore chances are if registered and stolen, I might get a call and some day to get my guns back. As I have seen in person guns stolen in Oregon then found in Alaska [Alaska and Oregon do not extradite for felonies] A trial in Alaska ending in jail time for the person in possession and the guns returned to my close friend here in Oregon where stolen.
When selling I ask for and record a valid Federal ID. Your Drivers license. I have never been refused.

 

[Nwcid]

Nothing personal If I buy a gun I run the numbers through the State police. I Do not want to spend time in jail for receiving stolen goods and being in possession of a stolen firearm.
Every gun I have owned or ever sold has a link to the A.F.T. department in Washington, DC. If you buy it stolen and you get found out, one thing is for sure your are an instant Felon. Furthermore chances are I might get a call and get my old guns back. I have seen in person guns stolen in Oregon then found in Alaska [Alaska and Oregon do not extradite for felonies] A trial in Alaska ending in jail time for the person in possession and the guns returned to my close friend.
If you didn't know before you know now. Do what you will, I could care less.

What happens if the gun is reported stolen AFTER you run the check?

Also you will not go to jail just for having a stolen gun. They will have to have a much bigger reason then that and it will all be based on the situation each time.

You are NOT an instant felon. That makes NO sense. So if you are Joe Blow and you bought a gun that later turns out to be stollen YOU are a victim, not a felon............. Very good effort to scare people though.

What is a "Every gun I have owned or ever sold has a link to the A.F.T. department in Washington, DC"?

 

[Silver Hand]

I maintained an FFL for almost forty years. Talk to the wall.
Something over thirty years as I now have time to think.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Someone please correct me if Im wrong here but I believe the charge is 'Knowingly' receiving stolen goods.
If you buy a used car from Jon Q. Dealership and a year later get pulled over and the LEO finds the care was reported stolen, I dont think you are on the hook for any crime unless they can somehow prove that you knew it was stolen when you purchased it.

I always post sales requirements including BOS when I post for sale online. I dont think anyone has ever asked me to do a sale otherwise.
Your property, your terms. If you prefer a BOS or not, its not my place to judge you one way or the other for it.

 

[Nwcid]

I maintained an FFL for almost forty years. Talk to the wall.

Not sure what that means if that was a comment toward me and my post.............

Plus it does not answer the question.

 

[ncgreggory]

either way....i wouldnt sell to someone without a bill of sale...the liablity could come back and bite you in the backside hard....especially in todays charged climate.

 

[Nwcid]

As stated it depends on what you are comfortable with.

I am comfortable following Federal and State law so I have NEVER sold a gun with a bill of sale. The only guns I have bought with BOS are from dealers.

Yes I just (less then a month ago) went though a situation where a gun I had in my possession for years was listed as stolen. I guarantee I am not a felon now or at any point. I did not go to jail. It did not cost me a dime. On top of that the gun was not reported stolen until over 6 months after I had the gun so no matter how many checks had been run on it when I got it there would have been no report.

Even after all that I still standby the above.

 

[Grunwald]

I found a simple solution to the problem - my safe is a firearm black hole. Once one enters it, it cannot escape.
....or to put it another way - I only buy.

 

[Silver Hand]

Not sure what that means if that was a comment toward me and my post.............

Plus it does not answer the question.

Sorry for the poor response to your post. I was at the end of my day and not able to reason as well with your questions. I will get back to this.

 

[Silver Hand]

Nwcid - your question and my best answer

What happens if the gun is reported stolen AFTER you run the check?

The police come to your door and take them from you. I lose the money when you tell me about the action.

 

[Silver Hand]

Nwcid - your question and my best answer

Also you will not go to jail just for having a stolen gun. They will have to have a much bigger reason then that and it will all be based on the situation each time.

If you think anyone found with a stolen firearm is not going to get cuffed - placed in the back seat given the ride, and then booked for possession of a stolen weapon [Possession of a stolen firearm] you haven't lived long enough. The same goes for sales of stolen goods.
You may be in a situation that requires bail and an attorney.
Buy a loaf of bread stolen from Wal-Mart No difference, receiving stolen goods is just that.
And it's a crime like it or not. You now have to prove your innocence as the state takes the legal path chosen for the indecent.
Do it with a gun and it may become Federal- AFT

 

[Silver Hand]

Nwcid - your question and my best answer

You are NOT an instant felon. That makes NO sense. So if you are Joe Blow and you bought a gun that later turns out to be stollen YOU are a victim, not a felon............. Very good effort to scare people though.

Not as long as your Attorney can prove otherwise.