Without the original AWB would sporting rifles be where they are?

[TTSX]

Provocative furniture! That's awesome.

Pretty awesome

 

[Knobgoblin]

Must be a regional phenomenon.
I grew up on and around Ft. Lewis. As a little kid, seeing all manner of cool gas operated, self loading rifles was very normal. HKs , FN variants, a1 and a2 styled ARs . Mini 14s were the cheap date at around $200 (used). Sks and AKs didn't really have a presence til I moved out. Even then , moving down to northern California in late 1990 had me browsing stacks of cheap chicom rifles and ammo by the pallet. The Clinton ban just doubled some prices and moved the sales to the garage/trunk/Arby's parking lot.
I've had " military grade hardware " around me since I could crawl. Most people I know and consider my peer group have had the same experience.

 

[lucusloc]

Yes, we know. It just as ridiculous a name if not moreso than assault rifle.

There really is not a better name that I have heard. "Assault Rifle" is it's own thing with an existing definition. "Assault Weapon" is a moving legal target that includes way more than just MSRs, not to mention all the political baggage it has. You could just list out all the platforms that MSR encompasses like "AR, AK, HK-whatevers. . ." but that is way more cumbersome than just "MSR". MSR is a good catch-all term to cover a magazine fed semi auto with modern ergonomics and a somewhat modular design paradigm. It differentiates it from other platforms that have adopted more modern ergonomic and design ideas (like a good number of shotguns and bolt actions have) and most people can picture exactly what the term means. The term serves a useful purpose quite well I think.

 

[nwslopoke]

Yes, we know. It just as ridiculous a name if not moreso than assault rifle.

We can call it what we want if they can. Plus, MSR is more accurate since nearly 100% are used for sport/activity.

It wouldn't matter to me if the powers that be, had useful and honest discussions with the term, but they don't. They misuse it like they misuse the word, compromise.

 

[3MTA3]

Late to this party but my answer to the original question is no. AR-15's pre ban were >$1000 and I bought my machine gun a few years before then for $1200 including tax stamp. To fill the same role as an AR-15 I bought a Ruger Mini-14 for IIRC less than $300. That it also flew under the radar due to it's more conventional appearance was a bonus.

The AR-15 didn't really take off until after the ban but only after prices dropped as non Colt companies were able to enter the market. Prior to that, regardless of ban, Colt kept the prices artificially high and did things like muck with trigger pin diameters and only sell unshrouded bolt carriers.

Post ban of course there was a lot of interest that helped those competitors lower the prices but that would have happened naturally when Colt no longer had a legal monopoly on the platform. So, explosive growth happened post ban, but also would have happened without it.

 

[RVTECH]

Funny thing, once one starts with ARs for purely recreational purposes, the bug sets in and before one knows it, there's a bunch of ARs in the safe.

Well, not in my case.

I actually got my one and only AR 15 in 1982 through a trade of many things. An early Colt Combat Commander was in the deal as well but that is a different story.

I went in the AF in 1983, and of course shot many M16's (along with other stuff) but eventually sold the AR. I was later 'given' an AK (a crappy MAADI that didn't feed ammo properly until I fixed it) along with about a 100 or so rounds of ammo. Shot that ammo up and traded it off.

Just never had a desire for any AR/AK style rifle.

 

[CamoDeafie]

MSR=Modern Sporting Rifle

Yes, we know. It just as ridiculous a name if not moreso than assault rifle.

We can call it what want if they can. Plus, MSR is more accurate since nearly 100% are used for sport/activity.

It wouldn't matter to me if the powers that be, had useful and honest discussions with the term, but they don't. They misuse it like they misuse the word, compromise.

There really is not a better name that I have heard. "Assault Rifle" is it's own thing with an existing definition. "Assault Weapon" is a moving legal target that includes way more than just MSRs, not to mention all the political baggage it has. You could just list out all the platforms that MSR encompasses like "AR, AK, HK-whatevers. . ." but that is way more cumbersome than just "MSR". MSR is a good catch-all term to cover a magazine fed semi auto with modern ergonomics and a somewhat modular design paradigm. It differentiates it from other platforms that have adopted more modern ergonomic and design ideas (like a good number of shotguns and bolt actions have) and most people can picture exactly what the term means. The term serves a useful purpose quite well I think.

Um. "Semiautomatic rifle" works just as well....

Its not like we're calling Glocks/similar handgubs "modular plastic framed pistols"

 

[lucusloc]

Um. "Semiautomatic rifle" works just as well....

Its not like we're calling Glocks/similar handgubs "modular plastic framed pistols"

I have a few semi-autos that are not MSRs. Seems less useful to lump them all in together.

And Glocks et. al. do have a colloquial term; "Plastic Fantastic" or "Tupperware" depending on how much you like them

But overall I think the distinction between pistols is less useful. They are all still basically the same platform when looks at for broad, general features. There is not a whole lot all that different between a 1911 and any random Glock until you get into details. The over-all form factor, ergonomics and function are pretty much the same.

Not so for a Remington 740 and an AR-10. There are quite a bit of differences both at the superficial and detail levels, and while they can server similar applications it is useful to differentiate between them in a general sense.

As a final thought we do differentiate between revolvers and pistols, I think that is a more apt comparison for MSRs vs. other types of long arms.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I have a few semi-autos that are not MSRs. Seems less useful to lump them all in together.

And Glocks et. al. do have a colloquial term; "Plastic Fantastic" or "Tupperware" depending on how much you like them

But overall I think the distinction between pistols is less useful. They are all still basically the same platform when looks at for broad, general features. There is not a whole lot all that different between a 1911 and any random Glock until you get into details. The over-all form factor, ergonomics and function are pretty much the same.

Not so for a Remington 740 and an AR-10. There are quite a bit of differences both at the superficial and detail levels, and while they can server similar applications it is useful to differentiate between them in a general sense.

As a final thought we do differentiate between revolvers and pistols, I think that is a more apt comparison for MSRs vs. other types of long arms.

Every "features" the Anti2a wants to ban, can be found on every semiauto rifle line, whether aftermarket or not. many can be added to bolt actions, levers, pumps as well.

 

[lucusloc]

Every "features" the Anti2a wants to ban, can be found on every semiauto rifle line, whether aftermarket or not. many can be added to bolt actions, levers, pumps as well.

Yeah, which is why the term "Assault Weapon" is useless; it has no meaning past the politics and can cover any firearm the politicians want at any moment. I find "MSR" is a useful term outside of its political connotations. It has a utility similar to "Assault Rifle" when you want to discuss a certain broad class of weapon as it relates to military paradigms. When someone says "MSR" there is a distinct class of firearm that comes to mind, with a distinct set of characteristics. Most people who are familiar with the topic will know exactly what those features are and can probably rattle off a few specific examples.

 

[Stomper]

I would like to think that bans , restrictions and the like would be reason enough for people to understand that if it can be done to one type of firearm....it can be done to any type of firearm.

I also think that any ban or restriction made for a rush of sales before said ban or restriction took place.

In addition to the above...I have long thought that firearm bans , restrictions and the like only affect those who abide by the law.
In other words....those people who ain't the problem.
Criminals break laws....its what they do...a ban or restriction ain't going to stop a criminal from committing a crime...
Nor is it going to stop him from using a banned or restricted item.

A murder is a murder...the victim is no less dead if he was murdered by someone using a flintlock or the latest AR15 variant and a 100 round drum magazine.
It ain't the firearm that is the problem here....it is the murderer that is the problem.
Andy

Germane to your post, and well worth watching….

View: https://youtu.be/EhxW3nLAfgM?si=Pz4nZgbW3FEgSIxm

 

[Stomper]

What is "msr"? Do youmean modular sniper rifle?

Mentally Sloppy Retard…



No offense to retarrrrrrds.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Yeah, which is why the term "Assault Weapon" is useless; it has no meaning past the politics and can cover any firearm the politicians want at any moment. I find "MSR" is a useful term outside of its political connotations. It has a utility similar to "Assault Rifle" when you want to discuss a certain broad class of weapon as it relates to military paradigms. When someone says "MSR" there is a distinct class of firearm that comes to mind, with a distinct set of characteristics. Most people who are familiar with the topic will know exactly what those features are and can probably rattle off a few specific examples.

There's also Mountain Safety Research brand MSR

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Mentally Sloppy Retard…



No offense to retarrrrrrds.

Muted snowflake response? Ie what happens when people should be outraged by a crime but instead think "we'll just pretend that one didn't happen". Only applicable to specific classes/affiliations of human beings.

 

[Stomper]

Muted snowflake response? Ie what happens when people should be outraged by a crime but instead think "we'll just pretend that one didn't happen". Only applicable to specific classes/affiliations of human beings.

It's a self-harming mental disorder…. but we digress from the thread topic.

 

[CLT65]

Much of the general public thinks that the AR-15 in particular is something extra special, somehow beyond a regular rifle.

In reality it's not. It just a rifle, one that shoots the same kind of bullets as many others. We can talk about modularity, reliability, accuracy, etc., but as to the practical aspect of sending bullets down range, it's just a rifle.

As a final thought we do differentiate between revolvers and pistols

Totally off topic and all, but this has always been a very slight pet peeve of mine, since by strict historical definition a revolver is a type of pistol, but by modern usage most people make the distinction that it's not. Language does change over time.

 

[wired]

I think it wasn't really the 94 ban that had the greatest impact. It was more the still in effect '89 ban that sucked the life out of the competing platforms from overseas. AR's suddenly got a monopoly and have expanded on that ever since. There used to be all kinds of other cool stuff that overshadowed the AR and when those dropped from the market it was a huge boost to the popularity of the AR-15. It was like when the Dinosaurs got wiped out the mice crawled out from under the leaves and took over the world.

 

[CountryGent]

Exactly what @wired said. There was a diversity of semi-automatic rifles available before Bush blocked imports in 1989. Take a look at some of those old Gun Bibles or whatnot from the era and one might be surprised by what was out there. After the ban, we were left with pretty much only domestic designs and the AR emerged as the dominant pattern. (The import ban was imposed via EO. It can be removed by said too, but no president has since.)

 

[RVTECH]

After the ban, we were left with pretty much only domestic designs and the AR emerged as the dominant pattern.

If imports were blocked how did say AKs & SKSs get over here post ban?

 

[CountryGent]

If imports were blocked how did say AKs & SKSs get over here post ban?

The SKS with fixed magazines were not blocked from import; the ones with removable, IIRC, were. The AKs were a weird mix; Some pre-ban. Some came in as single-stack magazines and converted, usually craptastically, to standard double-stack. Eventually domestic production started. I'd have to defer to the AK fans for the full story though.