SB 941 Loop Holes

[deadeye]

 

[Koda]

and if you dont share our level of paranoia, tell us what the make, model, and serial number have to do with a persons criminal background?

and im still holding you to this question.

 

[Koda]

View attachment 238164

he doesnt fit the definition of a troll.
Id rather him ask questions here than look to bloomburg for answers.... you would think that a firearms forum full of 2A advocates would be the place to ask questions, I hope we didnt run him off by calling him a troll....

 

[deadeye]

Id rather him ask questions here than look to bloomburg for answers........

gauging by his past posts he already does.

 

[Koda]

gauging by his past posts he already does.

that doesnt make him a troll...

 

[BSG 75]

I feel like most of you are so salty about the passing of SB 941 that you haven't actually read the damn thing for yourselves to see how very little impact it will have.

It has a huge impact on me. I'm a collector with a FFL 03 Curio & Relic. I had to pay a fee, give a copy of my application to my sheriff, and pass a background check to get the license. SB 941 has made my FFL 03 worthless. Before SB 941 I could buy C&R guns in Oregon and from all over the country and have them shipped directly to me without having to go through a local FFL for the background check and fee that goes with that. It saved me literally hundreds of dollars in fees for (unnecessary and redundant) background checks. Now I'll have to go through a background check and pay a fee every time I want to add to my collection.

 

[U201491]

I'll be more specific about CHL reciprocity. Some bills being introduced would allow you to sell/transfer firearms to another CHL holder without a background check since the CHL covers those grounds.

My old neighbor in an off post housing area near Ft Lewis was a good example. He was scooping up firearms online and reselling them in private sales. 13 of the guns he sold were used in crimes and 4 of them were sold to felons. He had bills of sale from his customers that had. There wasn't really anything LE could do to prosecute the guy but as his neighbor it was clear to me he didn't give a damn about who he was selling them to. I'm rather happy he's forced to either selling them completely illegally and running the risk of them being traced back or now forced to sell to people who can pass a background check.

WHAT.... Do you smoke a lot of drugs ??

 

[U201491]

that doesnt make him a troll...

There is a history........
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...ming-an-nra-member.191956/page-5#post-1243647

But then I see posts like this and all that seems way off from the current thoughts.
Go Figure LOL

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...ue-to-current-events.98381/page-3#post-675034

 

[Liberty97045]

Am I reading this bill right. Under the uniformity of CCH licensing they added a competency test?

 

[bnsaibum]

I don't share your level of paranoia.

There are bills in place right now to implement CHL reciprocity.

The only part I never liked about private sales is that it enables straw dealing with legal protection. If I decide to straw deal I could scoop up 10 guns and sell to non-law abiding citizens without worry of legal recourse. As long as you can prove you are unaware of the buyer status to eligibility.

I almost bought an older model Springfield 1911 on NWFA in an FTF and said to me "I wont ask you any questions and you won't tell me any lies."

Seems to me that there was a bill addressing this very issue that would have very nearly the same effect as 941 with a lot less intrusion, a lot less expense and a lot less hassle. That bill was brushed aside without any consideration.
Don't worry though. They aren't coming for you... yet. They've still got Rights defenders and supporters to deal with first.

 

[Koda]

There is a history........
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...ming-an-nra-member.191956/page-5#post-1243647

But then I see posts like this and all that seems way off from the current thoughts.
Go Figure LOL

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...ue-to-current-events.98381/page-3#post-675034

if hes a troll then why havnt the mods deleted him by now?

 

[NoFlinch]

if hes a troll then why havnt the mods deleted him by now?

YA, that's what I want to know

I had a whole thread closed and a "demerit/warning/black mark/infraction/ whatever they call it a few weeks ago for calling someone a troll.

Kinda made wonder after reading all this, and other posts/threads, if "someone" is out to "shut me down......"

NAH!.....I feel the love..........

 

[U201491]

if hes a troll then why havnt the mods deleted him by now?

?? May just be one of the lib members. Lots of Hee Haw er teeter tottering LOL

Actually kind of spooky how many Manchurians we have on the forum. Also a BIG recent influx of people around the time of the SB941 discussion beginnings also.

This may explain a bunch of it ????? Sure fits and explains many things that I have seen on many forums out there. I definitely like this one best, but there are embedded agents here and everywhere else. People just need to know that.

<broken link removed>

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...es-from-the-examiner-com.197599/#post-1271833

 

[tiggers97]

Ive seen at least one fairly new member try and bring down a defeatist attitude, and that we should all follow suite.

So the idea that part of the gun control strategy is to try and bring down the moral and energy level on forums like this one is not surprising.

 

[Dave Workman]

While I agree it's "better" that I-594 in WA as far as legitimate sporting purposes go, it doesn't make it a "good" law.

What is being sold here is a bill of goods wrapped in the "Aw, that's not so bad, is it?" appeal that sounds oh-so-reasonable until suddenly it's not reasonable at all.

But the gun prohibition lobby still refuses to answer the most important question of all about what is essentially the Achilles heel of their effort:

Question for antis: How do you do background checks on stolen guns?

Today, President Obama is paying tribute to fallen police officers at the National Peace Officer's Memorial Service, one day after the Huffington Post reported that half of cop-killers in 2013 were prohibited from possessing firearms.

<broken link removed>

 

[ROC]

The "loopholes" of 941 are slivers of freedom.

 

[U201491]

Ive seen at least one fairly new member try and bring down a defeatist attitude, and that we should all follow suite.

So the idea that part of the gun control strategy is to try and bring down the moral and energy level on forums like this one is not surprising.

I have seen and been in this fight for over 50++ years and there is no way it will slow down. They want us to stop fighting but what they cause is to make us fight harder and even use their BS tactics when they are needed. We need to out do their crap by what ever means we can use. Taking a higher ground route only leads to the cliff.
What is needed is too drive the worms back into their holes instead. Some of them need to be treated just like the rabid animals they are.

 

[3MTA3]

I have seen and been in this fight for over 50++ years and there is no way it will slow down. They want us to stop fighting but what they cause is to make us fight harder and even use their BS tactics when they are needed. We need to out do their crap by what ever means we can use. Taking a higher ground route only leads to the cliff.
What is needed is too drive the worms back into their holes instead. Some of them need to be treated just like the rabid animals they are.

Beware the Bloombots - they will stab you in the back at the first opportunity.

 

[NSDQ]

I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.

But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.

In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.

I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.

The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.

Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)

I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.

I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.

I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.

If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.

 

[Deebow]

I feel like most of you are so salty about the passing of SB 941 that you haven't actually read the damn thing for yourselves to see how very little impact it will have.

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/SB941/Introduced

Section 2: which includes an incredibly long list of legal exemptions from the background check is quite hefty and it includes a long list of ambiguous legal jargon. Seeing as how this law was just signed we are now in completely uncharted territory.

Family Members including first cousins are exempt.
Spouses and Domestic Partners (seriously. DOMESTIC PARTNERS. The most ambiguous term ever. A roommate, that girl that lived with you for 1 month, a friend who crashed on your couch for 1 week, etc etc)

Trusts/Trustees are exempt. The same NFA trusts we used for tax stamped items. If you had an LLC and an NFA trust you could expand this to include all of your shooting friends. Thus avoiding transfer hassles.

Also under section 2 includes one of the most ambiguous two exemptions from "TRANSFERS".

"Transfer" does not include the temporary provision of a firearm to a transferee if the transferor has no reason to believe the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm or intends to use the firearm in the commission of a crime, and the provision occurs:

(A) At a shooting range, shooting gallery or other area designed for the purpose of target shooting, for use during target practice, a firearms safety or training course or class or a similar lawful activity;

OR SIMILAR LAWFUL ACTIVITY. What about educating myself on the safe and proper use of a different model firearm I'm unfamiliar with for a temporary amount of time. A distance learning certification program..... etc etc

(B) For the purpose of hunting, trapping or target shooting, during the time in which the transferee is engaged in activities related to hunting, trapping or target shooting;

ACTIVITIES RELATED TO HUNTING. More grey area.


And of course the real reality is that this law won't be enforced at all. Just like 922R compliance.

Nice to see someone else thinking like me.