SB 941 Loop Holes

[NSDQ]

I feel like most of you are so salty about the passing of SB 941 that you haven't actually read the damn thing for yourselves to see how very little impact it will have.

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/SB941/Introduced

Section 2: which includes an incredibly long list of legal exemptions from the background check is quite hefty and it includes a long list of ambiguous legal jargon. Seeing as how this law was just signed we are now in completely uncharted territory.

Family Members including first cousins are exempt.
Spouses and Domestic Partners (seriously. DOMESTIC PARTNERS. The most ambiguous term ever. A roommate, that girl that lived with you for 1 month, a friend who crashed on your couch for 1 week, etc etc)

Trusts/Trustees are exempt. The same NFA trusts we used for tax stamped items. If you had an LLC and an NFA trust you could expand this to include all of your shooting friends. Thus avoiding transfer hassles.

Also under section 2 includes one of the most ambiguous two exemptions from "TRANSFERS".

"Transfer" does not include the temporary provision of a firearm to a transferee if the transferor has no reason to believe the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm or intends to use the firearm in the commission of a crime, and the provision occurs:

(A) At a shooting range, shooting gallery or other area designed for the purpose of target shooting, for use during target practice, a firearms safety or training course or class or a similar lawful activity;

OR SIMILAR LAWFUL ACTIVITY. What about educating myself on the safe and proper use of a different model firearm I'm unfamiliar with for a temporary amount of time. A distance learning certification program..... etc etc

(B) For the purpose of hunting, trapping or target shooting, during the time in which the transferee is engaged in activities related to hunting, trapping or target shooting;

ACTIVITIES RELATED TO HUNTING. More grey area.


And of course the real reality is that this law won't be enforced at all. Just like 922R compliance.

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[fuhr52]

As I have said before this law will not have any effect on gun violence. But this is an emergency law and must be passed so the left wing looney politicians can get their warm and fuzzy fix. How is this being enforced? Do we all carry a sales receipt to prove the gun is legal? The only way to enforce this is to match serial number with gun owns name. This means all guns must be registered. One of the steps for WE ARE COMING FOR YOUR GUNS! History doesn't lie. History repeats itself when people fail to learn and/or ignore it.

 

[NoFlinch]

To me, at this point of "understanding" this bill, it is not so much about transfers as it is about paperwork that can be followed by the Govt. "If they Desire to" to know who has and where are MANY guns in the USA..

A daunting task, but it's a start to confiscation......which IS the main goal of this bill

 

[bolus]

I think the registration of the firearms is the bigger deal. Good people are going to get background checks just to be safe. The paperwork is held onto for 5 year right (plus all the years after that they forget to remove them).

 

[NoFlinch]

I would have less of a problem if this was inserted into the bill;

"Holders of CCP's are exempt from background check.................."

 

[Koda]

I feel like most of you are so salty about the passing of SB 941 that you haven't actually read the damn thing for yourselves to see how very little impact it will have.

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/SB941/Introduced

Section 2: which includes an incredibly long list of legal exemptions from the background check is quite hefty and it includes a long list of ambiguous legal jargon. Seeing as how this law was just signed we are now in completely uncharted territory.

Family Members including first cousins are exempt.
Spouses and Domestic Partners (seriously. DOMESTIC PARTNERS. The most ambiguous term ever. A roommate, that girl that lived with you for 1 month, a friend who crashed on your couch for 1 week, etc etc)

Trusts/Trustees are exempt. The same NFA trusts we used for tax stamped items. If you had an LLC and an NFA trust you could expand this to include all of your shooting friends. Thus avoiding transfer hassles.

Also under section 2 includes one of the most ambiguous two exemptions from "TRANSFERS".

"Transfer" does not include the temporary provision of a firearm to a transferee if the transferor has no reason to believe the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm or intends to use the firearm in the commission of a crime, and the provision occurs:

(A) At a shooting range, shooting gallery or other area designed for the purpose of target shooting, for use during target practice, a firearms safety or training course or class or a similar lawful activity;

OR SIMILAR LAWFUL ACTIVITY. What about educating myself on the safe and proper use of a different model firearm I'm unfamiliar with for a temporary amount of time. A distance learning certification program..... etc etc

(B) For the purpose of hunting, trapping or target shooting, during the time in which the transferee is engaged in activities related to hunting, trapping or target shooting;

ACTIVITIES RELATED TO HUNTING. More grey area.


And of course the real reality is that this law won't be enforced at all. Just like 922R compliance.

you missed the part about registration....

 

[Caveman Jim]

"We're not going to take your guns"...

That is the end game people and the plant, er, I mean the OP is just trying to sugar coat the turd!!!!

 

[Just Jim]

Think it out a bit guys, what you are seeing is the end game getting real close. Remember the two big runs on guns since Obama has been elected? They know who most gun owners are, they are just covering the loose ends up to get a few more registered. It's why you see no enforcement in Washington and won't see much here, they are just getting a better paper trail of who has what.

Forget the laws and look at the end game, think out of the box and look at what is going on in your entire life. Did you ever believe they would force healthcare taxes on healthy people? There is a far bigger picture on this that you need to put together.

 

[Heywood]

I WILL NOT COMPLY!!!
How's that for a loop hole??

 

[B5Ben]

Honestly, I think you are missing the point. Very few of my purchases from private parties have been one of my close friends, even though I do want some very nice pieces of their collections. The fact that I still need to perform a BGC on someone with a CHL after 9/9/2015 is ludicrous. There are other issues that include preventing someone 18-21 from purchasing a handgun since 4473 disallows transfers of handguns to persons under 21, no C&R exemption and the utter fact that its unenforceable without lots of legwork and violating personal privacy. The list goes on, I just don't have time to rehash things that have been covered in other threads.

While I agree it's "better" that I-594 in WA as far as legitimate sporting purposes go, it doesn't make it a "good" law.

 

[NSDQ]

I don't share your level of paranoia.

There are bills in place right now to implement CHL reciprocity.

The only part I never liked about private sales is that it enables straw dealing with legal protection. If I decide to straw deal I could scoop up 10 guns and sell to non-law abiding citizens without worry of legal recourse. As long as you can prove you are unaware of the buyer status to eligibility.

I almost bought an older model Springfield 1911 on NWFA in an FTF and said to me "I wont ask you any questions and you won't tell me any lies."

 

[Koda]

CHL reciprosity has nothing to do with background checks...


your statement about straw dealing contradicts itself, how would you know they were prohibited?

 

[Koda]

and if you dont share our level of paranoia, tell us what the make, model, and serial number have to do with a persons criminal background?

 

[NSDQ]

I'll be more specific about CHL reciprocity. Some bills being introduced would allow you to sell/transfer firearms to another CHL holder without a background check since the CHL covers those grounds.

My old neighbor in an off post housing area near Ft Lewis was a good example. He was scooping up firearms online and reselling them in private sales. 13 of the guns he sold were used in crimes and 4 of them were sold to felons. He had bills of sale from his customers that had. There wasn't really anything LE could do to prosecute the guy but as his neighbor it was clear to me he didn't give a damn about who he was selling them to. I'm rather happy he's forced to either selling them completely illegally and running the risk of them being traced back or now forced to sell to people who can pass a background check.

 

[Koda]

I'll be more specific about CHL reciprocity. Some bills being introduced would allow you to sell/transfer firearms to another CHL holder without a background check since the CHL covers those grounds.

not in Oregon, those were tossed out. Can you share which states have those laws?

 

[NSDQ]

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Measures/Overview/HB2529

Hasn't been killed yet.

 

[Koda]

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Measures/Overview/HB2529

Hasn't been killed yet.

good to know but how will this bill work since 941 already passed?

(its also worth noting its not a valid point until its signed into law)

 

[NoFlinch]

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Measures/Overview/HB2529

Hasn't been killed yet.

I have yet to find the section covering private sales, but could only find the portion covering "Dealer Sales".

Can you point that section out to me?

 

[Koda]

yeah, same question as NoFlinch

 

[Koda]

I'll be more specific about CHL reciprocity. Some bills being introduced would allow you to sell/transfer firearms to another CHL holder without a background check since the CHL covers those grounds.

My old neighbor in an off post housing area near Ft Lewis was a good example. He was scooping up firearms online and reselling them in private sales. 13 of the guns he sold were used in crimes and 4 of them were sold to felons. He had bills of sale from his customers that had. There wasn't really anything LE could do to prosecute the guy but as his neighbor it was clear to me he didn't give a damn about who he was selling them to. I'm rather happy he's forced to either selling them completely illegally and running the risk of them being traced back or now forced to sell to people who can pass a background check.

Doesnt a person have to have an FFL to be in the buisness of dealing guns?
Your old neighbor would have to have an FFL to sell like that.... he would have then been required to run a background check. If so, he could be prosecuted....