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:s0140:
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.

But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.

In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.

I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.

The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.

Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)

I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.

I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.

I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.

If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.

:s0140: No really,:s0140: :s0142:good grief....
 
I agree 100%.:D

But I have no idea what a "pre-CGA68 history" is..........:confused:

In eastern Oregon before the Gun Control Act of 1968 (can't speak for the left side of the state):

People as old as I can remember when firearms were sold as a commodity. No FFLs.

Also, teenagers had 2nd Amendment rights to buy, sell, and otherwise possess any firearm.

Full(?) disclosure: There was the federal firearms act of 1938, not to be confused with NFA34, that vaguely required a license to deal in firearms, but it was apparently ignored widely.
 
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You could buy guns through the mail, $19 1911's and all kinds of good deals. The 68 gun control act came in after some high profile political killings showing the government was trying to stop the flow of guns. Today we have many millions more guns so it didn't stop the flow.
 
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.

But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.

In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.

I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.

The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.

Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)

I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.

I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.

I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.

If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.

Gonna keep it short.:D Opinions seem to form on gun control by how we see ourselves and how we see others. Accidents happen when we become so full of ourselves that we can't respect the range rules or officers who hold us to them.

Yep some of the guys can't run fifty yards, so what? Guns are tools to overcome physical disabilities so the weak can't be taken advantage of. Grandma doesn't need to run fifty yards to kill the rapist breaking into her house. I am sure you want granny to have thunder ranch training to defend her home but I doubt she will. Does that mean she shouldn't have a gun to defend herself?

Why should I have to go through a background check with number registration for every gun I buy. My CC that I have had since I was 21 says I am a good citizen but you seem to think I need to be checked if I buy from Bob at the gun range. Deal is you need common sense checks but it seems to be lacking with those that make up our laws. They have a beuracrats ignorance that they have to be told what to.

Edited to add, as I recall each DFAC (dinning facility) had guards watching to make sure your weapon was emptied in the right way and the trigger was pulled with the gun pointed into a sand barrel to make sure the gun was empty. I ate a lot of meals in the DFAC and never heard a round go off with thousands of troops eating at different times. However I only ate in four different facilities so it is possible you heard four separate rounds go off where you ate.
 
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Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)

I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.

I don't think there is anyone here that would disagree with you except that 941 and similar "Universal Background Check" laws are about a persons background. Yet you don't "share our level of paranoia" of confiscation or see the direction the gun control movement is heading even if slowly. The 'idea' behind what you support is good, background checks for all firearm purchases but reality is, putting registration concerns aside, UBC laws are worse than nothing because they ties up our legal resources enforcing them and its proven clearly they will do nothing to stop crime or prevent criminals from getting guns. Fact of the matter is there ARE better ways to do this WITHOUT the registration part, yet its not obvious to you that the gun control movement purposely doesn't want to take the more effective route to get there and in fact flat out ignored amendments that would make it work... that doesn't set off alarms in your head, what will? Do you honestly trust people who don't own guns to make the laws for the people who do? What will be the next [ineffective] law when UBC legislation fails to reduce crime? There is a bigger picture here that your not seeing, and we need gun owners exactly like you to see it.

Prohibitions, ineffective laws, Infringements, compromise after compromise, where will your freedom be in 20 years? Where will our future generations freedom be in 100 years? Please read this article, its not long its a quick read and is pertinent to my reply here...
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2013/01/a-repost.html

If after reading that you still don't see the paranoia behind why the gun control movement doesn't want to pass background checks that actually work without registration then you are supporting the movement to infringe on the second amendment. Over all these years of "compromising" that have changed NOTHING in violent crime or even mass shootings (which is nothing new), but prevent lawful citizens their 2A right to defend themselves such as the tragic Luby's mass shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_shooting


"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'"

-- John F. Kennedy, Address to the American People, 25 JUL 1961
 
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.

But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.

In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.

I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.

The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.

Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)

I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.

I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.

I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.

If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.
So, my takeaway from your post is, "I'm awesome but no one else should be trusted with any firearms". Kinda fits the Bloomy narrative. Enough of the "common sense" BS already.
 
For those who do not see the law as "that bad" what you are not considering is who wrote the laws. These people do no represent you. They have clearly demonstrated that they are following the wishes of a few with money. And its not one party. Its everyone in that legislature. Are you ok with that?
 
I suggest we drop the words "Common Sense" from our vocabulary When a demoncrat uses the term it comes out as a single word, commonsense," as in the way the emperor says it. As such it is political-speak for "You are about to get screwed.'

Once again the liberals have been allowed to hijack the language!!!!

Sheldon
 
I have often wondered of ALL gun sales (private & dealer) what percentage are FTF/private. Anyone know this or have a good guess?

I dont think there is any way to know, so I dont even have a good guess but Im leaning to less than 50%. What I do know is FTF sales is not the primary source of criminals acquiring guns.
 
Seeing how SB941 was passed. I was told that gun dealers are not set up to do the check/paperwork yet. And was also told by several dealers that the law doesn't take effect for the next 75 days since it was signed into law. Is this true?
 
I suggest we drop the words "Common Sense" from our vocabulary When a demoncrat uses the term it comes out as a single word, commonsense," as in the way the emperor says it. As such it is political-speak for "You are about to get screwed.'

Once again the liberals have been allowed to hijack the language!!!!

Sheldon

Has pretty well lost its meaning, just like the word "racist."
 
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.

But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.

In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob. Sitting through enough safety briefs. Giving enough death by power point presentations and after action reviews during my military career has made me distrust John Smith Gun who walks up on a gun range. I've experienced enough unsafe action by my own soldiers let alone some mall ninja who decided to buy a membership without formal gun training. Trust/Safety works generally in the military but fog of war is a real thing. Mistakes happened. The truth is I can't stand civilians at gun ranges and over 50 percent of the people I encounter who preach tactical/gun babble for self defense simply lack the real training to even speak.

I see a lot of folks who couldn't pass a military fitness test if their life depended on it preach to me about their range bag full of expensive guns and what they'll do when the SHTF (can this guy run more than 50 meters without collapsing?) but hasn't taken a decent training class. There is a lot of energy into the latest and greatest firearm but not a lot of enthusiasm to drop 1000 bucks on some quality training by professionals these days. Everyone thinks their Jeff Cooper and quite frankly that disturbs me. That isn't to say I haven't met some well trained gun folks on the rare occasion. I met a civilian who completed the thunder ranch courses from Clint Smith a few weeks ago and a boat load of other high speed tactical classes that generally impressed me. Actually. Civilians go take a Thunder Ranch class and ask Clint what he thinks about public ranges hahaha.

The reality is I've been flagged at more ranges than my life can handle. I'm fed up explaining to 40 year old adults about basic firearms safety. Even at more reputable ranges like Tri-County I've encountered idiotic unsafe morons. My favorite being the dual 1911 moron I encountered last week who decided to show off to his "guest" with his uncleaned guns. Moron flagged me when trying to figure out a malfunction. Thats not to say Soldiers were bad enough in my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan with negligent discharges. Two soldiers were rotated out of my unit for repeat offenses. In fact in Taji and in Al-Asad I heard that loud bang in the chow hall line four times a week because soldiers/marines failed to unload their mag when clearing their weapons. Everyone is hyper vigilant about muzzle awareness but complacency hits even well trained. Actually I've found it hits in the over confident.

Maybe its 10 years as an EMT and working around gun accidents. Crouched over on 162nd at 3am trying to do an assessment on this gangbangers girlfriend because her convicted boyfriend shot her because he didn't realize there was a round in the chamber. Asked where he got the gun? Bought his shiny new hi point from Armslist.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I believe that the only way you should be able to get a firearm is by going through a background check and an ID verification. There should NOT be a legal way to get past this. I just disagree that I should legally be able to sell some random stranger who responded to a gun ad a firearm without some way to verify that this person isn't a criminal, is of age to own a firearm, and isn't a mental patient (CHL is usually the best way and I support laws that allow private sales without having to go through an FFL)

I don't think SB-941 is perfect nor do I think its solution to the problems out there but I do believe its better than nothing. I simply don't find this law that world shattering.
If anything I think the NRA and GOA are stronger now than they were 20 year ago. I'm not particularly afraid of losing the 2a.

I fight gun phobia and fear by taking my liberal friends on shooting trips. People always fear what they don't understand and education and experience goes a long way in converting people to the common sense reality/responsibility of gun ownership than Left side media mumbo jumbo. You gotta convert folks not beat your chest louder on internet forums. At the same time I'm not some NRA can't do no wrong party line moron that can't see outside of the box.

I believe in the 2a and restrictions should be limited to basic common sense.
I just disagree with some of you in what that looks like.

If only I could give you unsafe pukes article 15's at the range.

"I believe in the 2nd amendment, BUT." That right there pretty well disqualifies your whole opinion. That and stereotyping everyone on this board,,, :rolleyes:
 
I find it amusing I have to defend myself for having conflicting views. Just because I enjoy shooting guns doesn't mean I have to tote the party line or it means I'm any less of a supporter of the 2a.

But this whole "if I'm responsible I should trust others will be responsible logic" doesn't work in the civilian world. This mentality always bothered me about private sales.

In fact the "civilian experts" mentality that I run into at every gun shop or gun show simply makes me laugh. Maybe its just a simple distrust of all things civilian. Maybe I just think all of you are pogues, but after glass house drills, MOUT site operations, and miles gear training has made me a snob.

This has been an interesting thread. The quoted part above is especially revealing. I've met "soldiers" before that have been so full of themselves and their high level of professional training that they look down on lowly "civilians" as incompetent and not to be trusted with firearms. I appreciated the quoted post because it brought out that condescension very clearly. No, not all soldiers are that way, by any means. It's an individual thing.

The law in question was opposed by all republicans and some democrat reps. It was opposed by the majority of law enforcement; dozens of county sheriffs. It was supported by the hard left and passed in a very unconventional and unethical way. What does that tell us? It makes me suspect that anyone that comes on an internet gun forum supporting said law is either ignorant, or solidly on the other side when it comes to firearm legislation.

I'm not saying that the OP is necessarily a plant or a "Bloombot" (though it's certainly possible). I've met plenty of nice enough people with the same type of perspective that just don't seem to even realize how arrogant, condescending and unreasonable they actually are.

Yes, there are many, many gun owners that see things differently. There are plenty of statist people who also like guns. They just tend to have this superiority thing going on and don't trust the common masses with that kind of power. They want the government to have intimate control over who can and who can't have weapons. Every statist regime in whe world asserts this kind of control over their subjects. That's only reasonable, just commonsense, right??

Some forums have a more international flavor, with members from places like Europe and Australia. They typically don't get into politics often, but I've noticed that when they do it seems that they tend to have that statist perspective, to at least some degree. They have to jump through a lot of hoops to get their guns. They have to have money and influence to possess firearms where they are and it works for them, so surely they are worthy whereas the common rabble is not? The wealthy and connected can have guns, but the average Joe is not to be trusted?

So. even Obama and Bloomberg claim to "support the Second Amendment", wanting only "reasonable, commonsense" restrictions. Sound familiar? At the same time they point to countries with overbearing, draconian laws as examples to follow. I would be curious to know just how much you guys think is "reasonable" (OP and supporters). Competency tests before you can own a gun? Full registration? Mandatory storage requirements? All of these are quite reasonable right? Seeing how those in power are always to be trusted and just have our safety and best interests at heart, right?
 
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"I believe in the 2nd amendment, BUT." That right there pretty well disqualifies your whole opinion. That and stereotyping everyone on this board,,, :rolleyes:

I'm just responding to being stereotyped for sharing a different opinion.

I make the distinction between government and laws. I don't subscribe to bloated LE agencies overseeing gun laws. Rather, I make the case that well thought out laws can prevent and eliminate the need.

This entire idea that make and model of your firearms will suddenly lead to a Kafka esque nightmare always makes me laugh. The government has the make and model of your vehicle. Oh no.. The DMV is going to take our vehicles away... Why is it important for them to have records? So if vehicles are used in a criminal way they can hold you accountable. Your tin foil hat needs a little more tin foil. For these reasons I have never had a problem with the government knowing the make and model of my vehicle and I share this opinion about my firearms. Government has a god damn DNA sample from me and a personnel history roster from my security clearance evaluation tests from military service. I could care less about them knowing the make and serial number of my firearm.

The old "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" guard has never resonated with me. A throw back to a past of my grandfathers World War II mindset generation and my fathers Vietnam experience. Yet as part of the next military generation I've found this thought process regressive. Times change and so do laws. Laws have to adapt to changing world that is changing faster and faster. This entire mindset that ALL laws must be stricken down has led to the watered down political process that never ends up producing qualitative legislation. I've spent 3 years of my life fighting regressive regimes with unyielding political,cultural, and religious ideals.

I'm part of a large number of veterans coming back to the ridiculous circus in the modern gun community. Plagued with overweight civilians wearing military uniforms (a disgrace to the uniform), with "tier 1 operator beards" and almost on cue with civilian gun marketing schemes the windfall of new purchases based on the latest and greatest syndrome fueled by a billion dollar industry trying to sell the tactical defense crowd the "SPECIAL OPERATIONS/NAVY SEAL" image of machoism. The irony never escapes me that statistically speaking a good majority of these consumers have a higher percentage chance of dying from heart disease or diabetes and that the biggest threat to themselves is their own BMI (seriously that wilson combat 1911 isn't going protect all those years of life you're losing to 35 percent body fat.)

I don't doubt there are some good shooters on here. Some that can put me to shame on some stationary paper targets with bright red target indicators. I don't doubt that the average guy on here might put in 150-250 rounds a week and be pretty decent after a few years. A good majority of the shooters I encounter haven't taken any real world defensive classes by some folks with real world modern training respected by law enforcement and military operator types (THUNDER RANCH COUH COUGH). I see a whole lot of fancy shiny new guns and a whole lot of grand standing about all the bells and whistles. Not a lot of bragging about training. Training isn't an instant gratification toy to make your friends jealous.

What is really at stake? Losing out to the really scary laws being pushed in the midwest. While the old guard keeps dreaming of 1937 to wake up to 2015. Laws like SB-941 passed because the old guards voice didn't resonate with millennials. Liberal democrats packaged something that most people agree should be in there (private sales circumvent background checks). Ya'll don't resonate with too many people under 40 and outside your little boxes you make for yourselves. Its like a big circle jerk of people who all agree with each other. Engage the populace and win some hearts and minds. I've converted more liberal voters with responsible gun trips than all the money you've spent giving it to the NRA (my dollar/bullet voter conversion rate is 10 times the money the NRA puts to use.)

Hope yall are enjoying your memorial day. I'm going to spend mine with what I define as compentency. ONG soldiers from Bco that just came back from Afghanistan.

NSDQ
Six Guns Don't Miss
 
I'm just responding to being stereotyped for sharing a different opinion.

I make the distinction between government and laws. I don't subscribe to bloated LE agencies overseeing gun laws. Rather, I make the case that well thought out laws can prevent and eliminate the need.

This entire idea that make and model of your firearms will suddenly lead to a Kafka esque nightmare always makes me laugh. The government has the make and model of your vehicle. Oh no.. The DMV is going to take our vehicles away... Why is it important for them to have records? So if vehicles are used in a criminal way they can hold you accountable. Your tin foil hat needs a little more tin foil. For these reasons I have never had a problem with the government knowing the make and model of my vehicle and I share this opinion about my firearms. Government has a god damn DNA sample from me and a personnel history roster from my security clearance evaluation tests from military service. I could care less about them knowing the make and serial number of my firearm.

The old "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" guard has never resonated with me. A throw back to a past of my grandfathers World War II mindset generation and my fathers Vietnam experience. Yet as part of the next military generation I've found this thought process regressive. Times change and so do laws. Laws have to adapt to changing world that is changing faster and faster. This entire mindset that ALL laws must be stricken down has led to the watered down political process that never ends up producing qualitative legislation. I've spent 3 years of my life fighting regressive regimes with unyielding political,cultural, and religious ideals.

I'm part of a large number of veterans coming back to the ridiculous circus in the modern gun community. Plagued with overweight civilians wearing military uniforms (a disgrace to the uniform), with "tier 1 operator beards" and almost on cue with civilian gun marketing schemes the windfall of new purchases based on the latest and greatest syndrome fueled by a billion dollar industry trying to sell the tactical defense crowd the "SPECIAL OPERATIONS/NAVY SEAL" image of machoism. The irony never escapes me that statistically speaking a good majority of these consumers have a higher percentage chance of dying from heart disease or diabetes and that the biggest threat to themselves is their own BMI (seriously that wilson combat 1911 isn't going protect all those years of life you're losing to 35 percent body fat.)

I don't doubt there are some good shooters on here. Some that can put me to shame on some stationary paper targets with bright red target indicators. I don't doubt that the average guy on here might put in 150-250 rounds a week and be pretty decent after a few years. A good majority of the shooters I encounter haven't taken any real world defensive classes by some folks with real world modern training respected by law enforcement and military operator types (THUNDER RANCH COUH COUGH). I see a whole lot of fancy shiny new guns and a whole lot of grand standing about all the bells and whistles. Not a lot of bragging about training. Training isn't an instant gratification toy to make your friends jealous.

What is really at stake? Losing out to the really scary laws being pushed in the midwest. While the old guard keeps dreaming of 1937 to wake up to 2015. Laws like SB-941 passed because the old guards voice didn't resonate with millennials. Liberal democrats packaged something that most people agree should be in there (private sales circumvent background checks). Ya'll don't resonate with too many people under 40 and outside your little boxes you make for yourselves. Its like a big circle jerk of people who all agree with each other. Engage the populace and win some hearts and minds. I've converted more liberal voters with responsible gun trips than all the money you've spent giving it to the NRA (my dollar/bullet voter conversion rate is 10 times the money the NRA puts to use.)

Hope yall are enjoying your memorial day. I'm going to spend mine with what I define as compentency. ONG soldiers from Bco that just came back from Afghanistan.

NSDQ
Six Guns Don't Miss

You will find most of us quit reading when you start with the insults. You only see the world from your jaded eyes and what you post reflects an opinion few will share without the same self centered outlook. No sense in me posting more, it's a waste of words.
 

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