S&W vs Ruger Revolvers

[41mag]

Wranglestar is a YouTuber from Oregon. Kind of a homesteader/prepper kind of guy.

guess you had to be there....
this seems like a nuance/joke beyond my level of indifference

 

[etrain16]

guess you had to be there....
this seems like a nuance/joke beyond my level of indifference

I'm not sure it's a joke so much as a reference that something Wranglestar has said or done with a Wrangler in his videos? If so, I'm not sure myself, just a guess. @Certaindeaf woukd have to clarify if he so desired.

 

[Argonaut]

Not really. Some are some in line with parts for every other car. Add to the fact that their factory parts last much longer than the American/Jap counterparts you're money ahead. I spent 13 months working for Mercedes as a sub contractor installing SS and carbon piping systems in a new building at their plant near here. I got to see 1st hand how those cars are made, the care, presicion and high standards simply don't compare to other plants I've been to. Say what you want but the Germans know how to build something that will last-I have both a MG34 and a MG42 that are additional proof to that. If you can't or won't spend the money for the best quality that money will buy, fine don't. But don't run down a product or those of us that demand the best for our money.

You are singing my song. I am very experiance with industrial, automotive and guns. There is a common theme that runs through German equipment (with a few exceptions) that is excellence in engineering and quality build. My 90 year old German sporting guns are incredible quality as have been every German car I have owned. (I lived in Germany for 4 years too) I have every thing from classic German cars to high performance cars, all are the best at what they were designed for. Our American Firearm industry is solidly based on German design and culture (ask Andy) even the 1903 Springfield infringed on Paul Mauser patents. After WW2 our armor and automatic weapons took on a decidedly German flare, the space race on both the American and Russian side was developed by ex-pat Germans, the automobile was actually invented by the Germans. The first operational jet aircraft, it just goes on and on. Not bad for a country about the size of Montana. Even our great John Browning did much of his work and actually died in Leige just a short distance from Germany in both culture and geography. As to quality in general, I prefer a product that is built the best it can be as opposed to a product built to see how cheaply it can be sold. You know, Henry Ford was a founder of Cadillac and was run out of the company for his refusal to build a quality car......then he built his own company to see how cheep he could make them. There were good reasons something like a Buick or Packard cost 3 or more times more than a Model T...........they were worth it.

 

[41mag]

The conflict between 'quality product' and 'marketability' hinted at in several posts above.

Given the historic position of 'Colt' in such as 'revolvers' that they closed their shop offering such products at what could well be considered the height of their designs, can generate heated discussion among fans of any revolver marque. Without the meticulous financial data that (probably) drove their decision, my own speculation is incomplete.

That the revolver market was left awash with a combination of cheaper imports in lieu of Colt continuing production, would have to account for something other than the 'build a better product' philosophy. Undoubtedly the emergence of the 'semi-automatics' phase affected the decision as well. Demand for revolvers may never be what it once was. How many Conestoga wagons does it take to satisfy that segment of the market these days, regardless of their relative quality compared to the Harbor Freight version? Kimber's recent introduction of a 'premium revolver' should give considerable insight to the concepts they promote along with their upgraded DA product. To date no hands-on examples have been in any store I have visited.

That Jeep was given to Fiat for arguably political purposes is another symbol that survival in a hostile economic environment demands adaptability.

Ruger The Company has always done a fine job of supporting any of their products I bought from them. That part of the traditional market reality seems intact.

 

[Tully Mars]

You are singing my song. I am very experiance with industrial, automotive and guns. There is a common theme that runs through German equipment (with a few exceptions) that is excellence in engineering and quality build. My 90 year old German sporting guns are incredible quality as have been every German car I have owned. (I lived in Germany for 4 years too) I have every thing from classic German cars to high performance cars, all are the best at what they were designed for. Our American Firearm industry is solidly based on German design and culture (ask Andy) even the 1903 Springfield infringed on Paul Mauser patents. After WW2 our armor and automatic weapons took on a decidedly German flare, the space race on both the American and Russian side was developed by ex-pat Germans, the automobile was actually invented by the Germans. The first operational jet aircraft, it just goes on and on. Not bad for a country about the size of Montana. Even our great John Browning did much of his work and actually died in Leige just a short distance from Germany in both culture and geography. As to quality in general, I prefer a product that is built the best it can be as opposed to a product built to see how cheaply it can be sold. You know, Henry Ford was a founder of Cadillac and was run out of the company for his refusal to build a quality car......then he built his own company to see how cheep he could make them. There were good reasons something like a Buick or Packard cost 3 or more times more than a Model T...........they were worth it.

You forgot to mention their clock making-I'm a huge fan.

 

[Argonaut]

The other thing about Ruger that is rarely discussed (any more) is how they have supported things like the assault weapon bans, large capacity magazine bans and all sorts of anti gun legislation. They simply rolled over in congressional testimonies several times and supported proposed gun control legislation. I guess they figgure if they snuggle up to the enemy it will make them immune to any negative laws coming down. There were huge conversations from people that would "never" buy a Ruger product over it.

 

[3MTA3]

The other thing about Ruger that is rarely discussed (any more) is how they have supported things like the assault weapon bans, large capacity magazine bans and all sorts of anti gun legislation. They simply rolled over in congressional testimonies several times and supported proposed gun control legislation. I guess they figgure if they snuggle up to the enemy it will make them immune to any negative laws coming down. There were huge conversations from people that would "never" buy a Ruger product over it.

Bill Ruger supported magazine capacity limits as opposed to banning the firearms themselves:
"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives.

William B. Ruger[10]"

The company obviously has changed greatly since his death since they sell AR patterned rifles and have Ruger branded magazines. I don't support Bill Ruger's efforts, but I also don't hold it against the company he created.

 

[MrMillspecer]

I find it funny when people need to remind you they have the best for everything. Yet I see no pictures of the best of the best targets. I've posted 5 shot 1-1/2" groups at 50' standing unsupported with a 45acp handgun. Let's see what a $3000 dollar revolver will do. Or are they safe queens since they are no longer made ?

A target on a fence post would last me about an hour. Then the post would be gone.

How did his turn to Colt is better than your anything and Mercedes is the best as well ?

Some good information here. Revolver Rivalry: Colt vs. Smith & Wesson

 

[Certaindeaf]

The other thing about Ruger that is rarely discussed (any more) is how they have supported things like the assault weapon bans, large capacity magazine bans and all sorts of anti gun legislation. They simply rolled over in congressional testimonies several times and supported proposed gun control legislation. I guess they figgure if they snuggle up to the enemy it will make them immune to any negative laws coming down. There were huge conversations from people that would "never" buy a Ruger product over it.

And Colt chose to sell out to the government, choosing military contracts instead of serving the public/citizen with their more traditional offerings. Oh well, thank God for Ruger.

 

[MrMillspecer]

I enjoy the Ivers and Colts I inherited for a combination of reasons. No one here said Ruger's were a bad gun........just not in the league of a Colt or even a Smith. My orignal 1858 Civil War issue Remington revolver still works and shoots great too but many lesser guns from the time do not so in comparison have lost in value and utility. Andy's great flint locks are well over 200 years old and function well but most cheep Indian trade rifles from the period do not.

Did you realize Andy's new AR........... IS NOT A COLT ? The poor children and their broken mainsprings. lol

 

[gmerkt]

Henry Ford was a founder of Cadillac and was run out of the company for his refusal to build a quality car......then he built his own company to see how cheep he could make them. There were good reasons something like a Buick or Packard cost 3 or more times more than a Model T...........they were worth it.

Quality is fine for those who can afford it. Henry Ford had other ideas about making money in the automotive business. His idea was to build cheaply and sell cheaply to as many people as he could. Which adds up to making more money because there were vastly more people who could afford a Ford than could afford a Buick or Cadillac. I don't believe Henry Ford set out to make the cheapest car just for its own sake. It's the same with firearms. People who bought an Iver Johnson bought it because they didn't have the money for a Colt or figured for purposes of self defense, they didn't need anything fancier than an Iver Johnson. Surely they weren't thinking about it being worth more money 100 years hence than they paid for it.

 

[mrorca]

but I have three Ruger SP101's in different calibers that I like.

Yes I have a wiley clapp and a match champion sp101... Great little pistols. I do like them slightly better than the 60-15 I had... The 60 did have one sweet trigger though.. The 101 are easy triggers to work on and change springs for someone who is not a gun smith as well. I would still have the 60 but I got a good deal on the wiley clapp and fell in love with it.. Shot circles around the 60.. For me anyhow.

 

[Argonaut]

I find it funny when people need to remind you they have the best for everything. Yet I see no pictures of the best of the best targets. I've posted 5 shot 1-1/2" groups at 50' standing unsupported with a 45acp handgun. Let's see what a $3000 dollar revolver will do. Or are they safe queens since they are no longer made ?

A target on a fence post would last me about an hour. Then the post would be gone.

How did his turn to Colt is better than your anything and Mercedes is the best as well ?

Some good information here. Revolver Rivalry: Colt vs. Smith & Wesson

Target photos are boring unless it bleeds.............all my guns get shot and nothing new outshoots them. A first generation 1973 cost a Cowboy 2 months wages, what would that be today......10,000. My brother has a hand full of modern Ruger plastic pocket pistols, none of them will consistently hit a small bore target at 50 feet so he went back to his 50's PPK that outshoots everything modern he has tried.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Target photos are boring unless it bleeds.............all my guns get shot and nothing new outshoots them. A first generation 1973 cost a Cowboy 2 months wages, what would that be today......10,000. My brother has a hand full of modern Ruger plastic pocket pistols, none of them will consistently hit a small bore target at 50 feet so he went back to his 50's PPK that outshoots everything modern he has tried.

Lol, now a Starbucks Cowboy has to work two weeks for a Python. Kinda puts that "value appreciation" into perspective.

 

[MrMillspecer]

Target photos are boring unless it bleeds.............all my guns get shot and nothing new outshoots them. A first generation 1973 cost a Cowboy 2 months wages, what would that be today......10,000. My brother has a hand full of modern Ruger plastic pocket pistols, none of them will consistently hit a small bore target at 50 feet so he went back to his 50's PPK that outshoots everything modern he has tried.

I had a PPK in 32 that was a hand biter. Glad your brother can shoot it better than his plastic pistols. I sold mine and have never missed it. Good to hear nothing new will outshoot your guns. Yep good talk.

 

[Argonaut]

I had a PPK in 32 that was a hand biter. Glad your brother can shoot it better than his plastic pistols. I sold mine and have never missed it. Good to hear nothing new will outshoot your guns. Yep good talk.

45 years ago, I was shooting on the Washington national guard pistol team. Our "old" M52 Smith and Wesson's were so accurate that the coach thought the use of wadcutter bullets raised our scores by 10% over round nose bullets in our Combat Masterpiece revolvers. They would cut holes in the target making hits connected making some 9 ring scores 10 ring. They would constantly shoot 50 foot one hole 5 shot groups. Our "old" High Standards were as accurate but the small 22 cal impacts didn't connect as often so the scores could be a little lower. One of my buddies shot a Hamerelli free pistol that would consistently shoot 22 cal 1 hole 5 round groups at 50 feet. I don't really know how you can improve those scores with anything modern. Like when I was on the USAF European trap team. We would frequently shoot 100 straight with our "old" Krieghof shotguns.

 

[Ruger Rich]

I cant believe this is even a discussion. It's RUGER, RUGER, and more RUGERS

 

[Certaindeaf]

45 years ago, I was shooting on the Washington national guard pistol team. Our "old" M52 Smith and Wesson's were so accurate that the coach thought the use of wadcutter bullets raised our scores by 10% over round nose bullets in our Combat Masterpiece revolvers. They would cut holes in the target making hits connected making some 9 ring scores 10 ring. They would constantly shoot 50 foot one hole 5 shot groups. Our "old" High Standards were as accurate but the small 22 cal impacts didn't connect as often so the scores could be a little lower. One of my buddies shot a Hamerelli free pistol that would consistently shoot 22 cal 1 hole 5 round groups at 50 feet. I don't really know how you can improve those scores with anything modern. Like when I was on the USAF European trap team. We would frequently shoot 100 straight with our "old" Krieghof shotguns.

Same deal with .45 or whatever. In a lot of games, (bullseye etc.) it is and was legal to use the larger bores and especially with the wadcutters commonly used would score higher, all other things being equal.

 

[osprey]

Lots of hyperbole here. It is more about the marksman getting used to his platform and practicing. I am not much of a collector and all my guns are purpose bought. I can appreciate an old colt but never saw the need to pay the money they command for my intended usage. I may have had a different opinion if I grew up when they were not a collectors item. When I am in the field my carry side arm is usually a SW 629, a Ruger SBH in 44 mag or a Glock 20. Yep I said it and I like my whiskey neat or occasionally on the rocks!

 

[41mag]

...."the older I get the better I used to be.....these days I may be slow but I'm as inaccurate as any".....