Russian troop build up on the Ukrainian border ...

[JuglansRegia]

It's an unfortunate thing that it happened, but, realistically, Germany got off easy after what was done to Russia, Belarus, and the like. You probably know this so I won't speculate as what motivates the lack of objectivity.

The atrocities committed by Germany in the 20th century are well known, but the atrocities committed by the Russians/Bolshevik/Soviets/Russians were on a grander scale and more horrific. Its for this reason that the Baltic States, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, Czech, & Slovak Republics as well as Georgia seek protection from Russia. The original inhabitants of Crimea would be seeking Nato membership too but they have been eliminated long ago. There is a pattern.

 

[raftman]

The atrocities committed by Germany in the 20th century are well known, but the atrocities committed by the Russians/Bolshevik/Soviets/Russians were on a grander scale and more horrific. Its for this reason that the Baltic States, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, Czech, & Slovak Republics as well as Georgia seek protection from Russia. The original inhabitants of Crimea would be seeking Nato membership too but they have been eliminated long ago. There is a pattern.

A pattern of intellectual dishonesty on your part, absolutely. Hungary and Russia, for example, get along reasonably well these days, as do Russia and Slovakia (both refuse to recognize Kosovo as a legitimate nation for example) and in Georgia's case, it was they who provoked the recent war in hopes that NATO would rush to their aid. Post-Soviet Ukraine, as I already explained, was getting along with Russia reasonably well up until the Obama-Biden sponsored coup. The modern day strife has more to do with the global ambitions of neoconservatives and their allies.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Yeah, post Soviet Ukraine was getting along great with Russia until Putin's puppet was deposed and fled to Russia. Georgia provoked an attack by Russia? did they invade some Russian territory or something? not bowing down to a bully is not the same as provoking an attack.

 

[raftman]

Deposed by a violent coup organized by an outside state that had no business being there, and just a few months before their election. Seems legit.

The Georgians shelled South Ossetian civilians, which gave cause for Russian PKF's to roll in... even the EU investigation into the beginning of the war conceded Georgia bore at least some of the responsibility.

Like I said, gotta move beyond the CNN/MSNBC narrative.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Deposed by a violent coup organized by an outside state that had no business being there, and just a few months before their election. Seems legit.

The Georgians shelled South Ossetian civilians, which gave cause for Russian PKF's to roll in... even the EU investigation into the beginning of the war conceded Georgia bore at least some of the responsibility.

Like I said, gotta move beyond the CNN/MSNBC narrative.

Well, I guess the history books have it all wrong then, but hey, Russians always wrote their own history despite what actually happened.

 

[EHJ]

This is a picture of Queen Liliʻuokalani - of Hawaii.

For no reason, whatsoever.

 

[Ferryman]

In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence, frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of nations, has been the victim.


So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.


As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils. Such an attachment of a small or weak towards a great and powerful nation dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.

-George Washington

 

[raftman]

Well, I guess the history books have it all wrong then, but hey, Russians always wrote their own history despite what actually happened.

I mean, if every talking point so far has been largely debunked.

Heck just now, for example, Hungarian minister of defense Tibor Benko both asserted his opposition to Ukraine joining NATO and stated Hungary doesn't want/need any deployment on its territory of any outside NATO troops amid the ongoing "crisis."

It isn't so much "history books," it's that your arguments mostly derive from the selective reading of the mainstream press reporting... who (most) everyone knows lie about everything else important, but we can trust them 100% on this?

 

[JuglansRegia]

I mean, if every talking point so far has been largely debunked.

Heck just now, for example, Hungarian minister of defense Tibor Benko both asserted his opposition to Ukraine joining NATO and stated Hungary doesn't want/need any deployment on its territory of any outside NATO troops amid the ongoing "crisis."

It isn't so much "history books," it's that your arguments mostly derive from the selective reading of the mainstream press reporting... who (most) everyone knows lie about everything else important, but we can trust them 100% on this?

You are making lots of assumptions about me and where how l get my information. I make assumptions too, l always assume that Russia and China are lying about International incidents, l could care less about their internal affairs.

 

[GWS]

An interesting article by Reuters
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/13/europe/putin-soviet-collapse-taxi-intl/index.html

 

[Camelfilter]

An interesting article by Reuters
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/13/europe/putin-soviet-collapse-taxi-intl/index.html

Interesting. A politician whom had a real job.

Very interesting indeed.

Could be he simply wants to increase his nations employment. With all the buffer zone talk as bluff for accomplishing such.

To whit, take Eastern Ukraine & rebuild that regions industry (jobs).

PLUS not having "idle" military...

Best outcome would be peaceful parlay, without loss of life. Not seeing such happening at this point, out of region meddling is not helping such. IMO.

 

[monkeybutler]

Wow has Russian propaganda been effective.

 

[raftman]

You are making lots of assumptions about me and where how l get my information. I make assumptions too, l always assume that Russia and China are lying about International incidents, l could care less about their internal affairs.

Right, like when they lied that the Tsarnaev brothers were dangerous?

 

[JuglansRegia]

Falling down with dementia Joe Biden is our payback for falling down drunk Boris Yeltsin, things have come full circle, again.

 

[Diamondback]

 

[Member 52301]

The neocons have gotten us into a variety of adventures that we didn't need that cost us way too much blood and treasure, always under the notion that America needs to be the world's policeman. To stand up to evil and protect America's interests. However, wouldn't you say that Putin's annexation of the Crimea and his posturing on the Ukraine's border gives some validation to the neocon's views?

NO!

Cate

 

[Provincial]

I vote we draft Liz Cheney and all her offspring as buck Privates and put them on the front lines in the Ukraine. Who else should we draft to that detachment?

 

[Diamondback]

I vote we draft Liz Cheney and all her offspring as buck Privates and put them on the front lines in the Ukraine. Who else should we draft to that detachment?

Adam Kinzinger, the Shrubs, Fat Pedo Nadler, the Vindbags...

 

[GWS]

NO!

Cate

Why not?

 

[Horatius]

Right now, at this moment in time. Who stands to gain the most from international conflict and the focusing of Americas attention span anywhere but here?