Washington Ruby Ridge lite

[Geardo]

If I could have it my way, LE would be removed from ALL civil matters until they escalate into a criminal matter.

Want a no-contact order? Go serve it yourself. Don't worry, if you get beat to death, there will be plenty of physical evidence to allow us to enforce the law.

Wellfare check? Do it yourself! Like you give a schit anyway. Not local? Your family is SO GREAT you don't have friends?

Your kid having a mental event? Fix it! O'bama care and all that crap. (Remember how hard it was to corral a 3-year old having a fit? Now he's 21! Bet you wish you spanked him now!)

I 100% agree. But you bet your bubblegum if I served a "no contact" order for a relative, their might be a little contact .

 

[No_Regerts]

This here. "IF" this is what happened the guy won a Darwin Award.
If someone knocks at my door in the dark I have a gun with me no matter where I live. The person on the other side of the door has no idea as I do not, repeat, DO NOT have it in the face of the person at the door. Now if a marked LEO pulls up? I also DO NOT run outside with a weapon in hand.
"IF" this guy was that unhinged he has only himself to blame. It is amazing to watch the "I hate all Cops" crowd who just love to run to say they "know" this was murder by the Cops. People like that are clueless as to what they want. They really think a world with no Cops would be ideal when it would be just the opposite. Take away Law Enforcement and the tough guys who think they would be able to take care of their own would in reality be slaves to someone more powerful.

On new years, we grabbed up some warrants and did some knock and talks. When warrants get old, we generally just knock and talk because people move and what-not. Its more of a means of eliminating the old addresses.

We knock on a door and I can see through a gap in the blinds that the dude has a shotgun. He peeks through the blinds, holding the shotgun pointed muzzle down. He sees me, fully marked (I normally work plain clothes) and sets the shotgun in the corner. He answers the door and we talk about how many different people have leased the duplex before him and the guy we were looking for was long gone. I thank him, we shake hands and wish each other happy new year.

The End

 

[Geardo]

I get sick of reading about "family" when some scum gets himself killed by a Cop. Here come the family looking for any camera they can find. To bad mouth the Police for killing the scum, who was of course "just getting his life back on track" after years of multiple arrests. Of course the fact that he illegally had a gun had nothing to do with him being shot. After all he was just getting his life back on track and was going back to college and such. Of course a large amount of cash will make the family whole again too.

We don't know if this guy was "scum" or just a cranky old man.

 

[m8112]

As a retired PO I wonder why the shooting is not going to be reviewed by the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department.

 

[clearconscience]

We still talking about this?

In any situation like this I always look at one thing, Did the person do something to provoke police action?

In this case, much like the Ruby Ridge incident, they did.

Not saying the police were right or wrong, but they still made a decision that led to police action.

This guy threatening a police officer making contact, and whatever it was that prompted his wife to request a welfare check.

 

[Geardo]

We still talking about this?

In any situation like this I always look at one thing, Did the person do something to provoke police action?

In this case, much like the Ruby Ridge incident, they did.

Not saying the police were right or wrong, but they still made a decision that led to police action.

This guy threatening a police officer making contact, and whatever it was that prompted his wife to request a welfare check.

No one is arguing the guy isn't an idiot, and didn't do something stupid....

The questions to me are:

A) which story is more truthful, the cops story or the story presented by family. After seeing the cop's story, and using some logic, I don't know who would have been around to witness the family's side of the story.

B) did this guy "deserve" to die, from an ethical standpoint? To me, the difference is whether he ever pointed his gun at the first cop, after realizing he was a cop. The way the stories are written, it seems to me he came outside like a A-hole, Then realized it was a cop, and went back inside.

C) was the APC Swat team responce neccesary, or could they have just left the guy alone.

I don't know anyone who has ever taken the Feds side in Ruby Ridge.....

 

[308]

We still talking about this?

In any situation like this I always look at one thing, Did the person do something to provoke police action?

In this case, much like the Ruby Ridge incident, they did.

Are you insinuating Randy Weaver instigated the incident leading to Lonny Boy shooting Mrs Weaver in the face with his sniper rifle?

 

[No_Regerts]

No one is arguing the guy isn't an idiot, and didn't do something stupid....

The questions to me are:

A) which story is more truthful, the cops story or the story presented by family. After seeing the cop's story, and using some logic, I don't know who would have been around to witness the family's side of the story.

B) did this guy "deserve" to die, from an ethical standpoint? To me, the difference is whether he ever pointed his gun at the first cop, after realizing he was a cop. The way the stories are written, it seems to me he came outside like a A-hole, Then realized it was a cop, and went back inside.

C) was the APC Swat team responce neccesary, or could they have just left the guy alone.

I don't know anyone who has ever taken the Feds side in Ruby Ridge.....

A: Who knows. The first confrontation resulted in the second. We have no good info on what the first really looked like. Whatever happened, it resulted in a warrant being granted.

B: This is where it gets tricky. Was the guy being checked on because he was in poor health or was it because he was thought to be suicidal? If the dude presents a weapon after realizing it was a deputy, he's committing a felony. He goes back in the house, the deputy isn't going to chase after him. Problem is, if you leave the guy to being an azzhole and there was previous fear of self-harm and you now know he has a gun, your dept owns it if he kills himself.

C: This is where the 2nd Amendment proves its worth. Look at the response to ONE person with a gun. No one there is willing to give their life. No LE oath states that, unlike the military. Because of that going into someone's turf who is known to have a gun and a willingness to use it, will result in a SWAT callout. The first step on the use of force ladder is presence. SWAT gains most of its compliance through its presence, not its actions.

 

[clearconscience]

Are you insinuating Randy Weaver instigated the incident leading to Lonny Boy shooting Mrs Weaver in the face with his sniper rifle?

I'm saying had he not started hanging with white supremist, and making the decision to build illegal suppressors, then he and his family may still be at peace on the mountain.

He made bad decisions that led to the police murdering his family.

Just as this guy made the decision to act threatening to a police officer.
Had he answered the door with no weapon, been respectful, and non threatening, maybe they would have left him alone,
Maybe if he didn't try to run out the back door with a gun he may not have been engaged in a deadily manner.

Same as Lavoy Finnicum, if he hadn't run from a police stop and given up, let the law fight it out in court, he would be alive, and like the others a free man.

Same as every gangsta POS that is selling drugs, fighting cops, running, etc.

We say it all the time, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

You don't get to say what works for one side doesn't apply to the other.

I'm not saying the cops are right in any of these instances,I'm not saying they deserved to die.
But they all made bad decisions that led to their death.

 

[308]

I'm saying had he not started hanging with white supremist, and making the decision to build illegal suppressors, then he and his family may still be at peace on the mountain.

He made bad decisions that led to the police murdering his family.

Just as this guy made the decision to act threatening to a police officer.
Had he answered the door with no weapon, been respectful, and non threatening, maybe they would have left him alone,
Maybe if he didn't try to run out the back door with a gun he may not have been engaged in a deadily manner.

Same as Lavoy Finnicum, if he hadn't run from a police stop and given up, let the law fight it out in court, he would be alive, and like the others a free man.

Same as every gangsta POS that is selling drugs, fighting cops, running, etc.

We say it all the time, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

You don't get to say what works for one side doesn't apply to the other.

I'm not saying the cops are right in any of these instances,I'm not saying they deserved to die.
But they all made bad decisions that led to their death.

That is not how I understand the Weaver family and how/why they interacted with the locals. In fact it is quite different than how you portrayed it.

 

[clearconscience]

Did they not start hanging out with white supremist, and did he not try/made suppressors for one of them? I think it was actually an undercover Fed.

The Feds used him to try to get to the white supremist as I understood it.

I may be incorrect, but I thought thats what led to the Feds getting involved with the family to begin with.

 

[Geardo]

Did they not start hanging out with white supremist, and did he not try/made suppressors for one of them? I think it was actually an undercover Fed.

The Feds used him to try to get to the white supremist as I understood it.

I may be incorrect, but I thought thats what led to the Feds getting involved with the family to begin with.

Randy sawed off a shotgun like 1/2" too short, based on the mark the undercover fed gave him on the barrel.

I appreciate your final paragraph, that those mentioned did not deserve to die. I think we can all agree they made stupid decisions, but some of them were fighting for ideals they believed in.

The video evidence from inside the vehicle of finnicum sure sounds like HRT fires at the vehicle after they stopped the second time.

He was trying to make it to the sheriff to have a fair discussion, and was gunned down by overzealous feds and state police. Just ny humble opinion.

 

[clearconscience]

I agree.
And like I said the police especially the Feds were wrong. In the actual Ruby Ridge senario they were wrong in every aspect.
They targeted that family to use them to narc on the white supremist.

He made the bad decision to associate with them and fall into the feds trap.

That isn't the best example, but these two incidents should not be lumped together.

 

[Geardo]

I would also point out that in today's world, association has simply be the forums or websights one visits. I am a Jew, but I frequent a certain website that is filled with mainly hardcore honest to god Nazis for a couple reasons. Does that justify increased examination of all my records, or a raid on my house? I have made AR pistols and their are pictures of me shouldering them on here. What about that? Would my murder get written off as "bad decisions"?

....probably.

 

[clearconscience]

Probably.

Especially in todays media.

Not saying it's right, but people will use anything they can against you.

J walking! Surveil him!

 

[clearconscience]

Truth is we are the enemy to the vast majority of the US nowadays.

Anything you do can and will be used against you in the court of public opinion.

 

[308]

Randy sawed off a shotgun like 1/2" too short, based on the mark the undercover fed gave him on the barrel.

Right. I never heard of him building suppressors, however, he was pressed by FBI to infiltrate the local white supremacist group, but declined and that pissed off the feds.

Back to the issue of building suppressors in the State of Idaho...check the following link regarding what folks on the free State can actually do, and build:
Section 18-3315A – Idaho State Legislature

silencers

 

[nammac]

Truth is we are the enemy to the vast majority of the US nowadays...

More truth in that one statement than most folks are comfortable with recognizing... Its sad, but true...

 

[clearconscience]

Right. I never heard of him building suppressors, however, he was pressed by FBI to infiltrate the local white supremacist group, but declined and that pissed off the feds.

Back to the issue of building suppressors in the State of Idaho...check the following link regarding what folks on the free State can actually do, and build:
Section 18-3315A – Idaho State Legislature

silencers

I was incorrect, it was the shotgun not suppressors, I knew it had something to do with a NFA item

 

[Alexx1401]

On new years, we grabbed up some warrants and did some knock and talks. When warrants get old, we generally just knock and talk because people move and what-not. Its more of a means of eliminating the old addresses.

We knock on a door and I can see through a gap in the blinds that the dude has a shotgun. He peeks through the blinds, holding the shotgun pointed muzzle down. He sees me, fully marked (I normally work plain clothes) and sets the shotgun in the corner. He answers the door and we talk about how many different people have leased the duplex before him and the guy we were looking for was long gone. I thank him, we shake hands and wish each other happy new year.

The End

As it should be. I had Police show up at a rental I had decades back a couple times like that. Both times it was a very Spanish sounding name, they would look at me and I could see they figured he was not me. I would tell them when I moved in, they jotted down a note and off they went. After the second one I started getting a little leery of who the hell had been living in that place before me. It was also when I started changing locks on anything I rented as soon as I moved in. All I could think of is who the hell knows who walked off with keys to the place, and did not trust the landlord to have replaced the locks.