Washington Ruby Ridge lite

[Brutus57]

No witnesses but LEOs, doesn't really matter what really happened . Of course the dead man could have been Doc Holiday with a pistol and an imminent threat to any concealed sharpshooter. Especially on the run......

Brutus Out

 

[Brutus57]

Again, this was Bonner County Idaho. Sandpoint proper withstanding, one of the more conservative areas of the country.

Does not mean the deputy sheriffs hired in are conservative...

I am firmly behind the blue but we only have one side of the story and they would be crowing if the guy had a felony prior and thereby unlawful to carry.

Give the widow ALL th evidence unless you are trying to hide something...

Brutu Out

 

[csa_ap_hill]

You can "get sick" all day and night and it will change nothing. We live in a society. That comes with laws and rules. Do I like all of them? No. There is a way to change them and gun owners choose wrong every 2 years. So keep getting sick, and watch gun owners vote away their rights while you tell them how sick you are of Government, who the gun owners vote in.
I keep hoping beyond hope that a huge bunch of the gun owning public will finally get enough and use the vote to make changes. So far no luck. As for the rhetoric of "if they come for mine they get the lead", makes a great bumper sticker and again does nothing. Statements like that are what the left just LOVES. They use them to paint all of us as kooks. Out of the thousands who make such statements once in a blue moon one will actually try. They of course are fodder for another 24/7 news cycle of how gun owners are kooks because they took shots at Cops.

"There is a way to change them" （ˣ∇ˣ）

 

[Howard1955]

Interesting discussion. Here's a screenshot of the comments section of the article. His aunt seems to think he was a stand-up guy. Of course, we often hear family members say that a dead perp was "a good boy, who was just getting his life on track"...

 

[Alexx1401]

Interesting discussion. Here's a screenshot of the comments section of the article. His aunt seems to think he was a stand-up guy. Of course, we often hear family members say that a dead perp was "a good boy, who was just getting his life on track"...

I don't think I have ever seen any perp, even when they are clearly on video doing stuff, where some family does not swear it was all the Cops fault. It becomes a standing joke often.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

hipocrites... lol against gun control but if it's a law already and includes infringing guns no matter you'reall mostly "Well if he was a felon then he deserved it." OMFG!

 

[slimmer13]

hipocrites... lol against gun control but if it's a law already and includes infringing guns no matter you'reall mostly "Well if he was a felon then he deserved it." OMFG!

One more time?

 

[Howard1955]

hipocrites... lol against gun control but if it's a law already and includes infringing guns no matter you'reall mostly "Well if he was a felon then he deserved it." OMFG!

Sorry, man. I don't know what you mean.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Sorry, man. I don't know what you mean.

really?.. you didn't say this?
His aunt seems to think he was a stand-up guy. Of course, we often hear family members say that a dead perp was "a good boy, who was just getting his life on track"... unless you meant something totally different than how this sounds, then you and all who support this Govt as it is whether Repubs are in or Democraps then you're all hypocrites.
To make my point:
Were in the midst of one of the most Draconian gun control bills, and if it passes it has the propensity or ability to turn us all into felons and or criminal. (Those that actually give an sh*t that is). And if it does and passed the muster of Court which it will. Someone will get caught violating it and you and other as yourself will say "Well, he/they deserved it they broke the law". Makes me sick when I hear that and is nothing more than Hypocrocy. Frick law and order if you don't have freedom I say!

 

[csa_ap_hill]

One more time?

refer to my answer to the other one.

 

[slimmer13]

really?.. you didn't say this?
His aunt seems to think he was a stand-up guy. Of course, we often hear family members say that a dead perp was "a good boy, who was just getting his life on track"... unless you meant something totally different than how this sounds, then you and all who support this Govt as it is whether Repubs are in or Democraps then you're all hypocrites.
To make my point:
Were in the midst of one of the most Draconian gun control bills, and if it passes it has the propensity or ability to turn us all into felons and or criminal. (Those that actually give an sh*t that is). And if it does and passed the muster of Court which it will. Someone will get caught violating it and you and other as yourself will say "Well, he/they deserved it they broke the law". Makes me sick when I hear that and is nothing more than Hypocrocy. Frick law and order if you don't have freedom I say!

Ok fine. No law and order. We will go with that. So in this lawless world, theres no laws, no cops, nothing. Do you think if you point a gun at a group of people that are better trained, better armed and have tactical advantages, there is a good chance you may get shot?

 

[Howard1955]

really?.. you didn't say this?
His aunt seems to think he was a stand-up guy. Of course, we often hear family members say that a dead perp was "a good boy, who was just getting his life on track"... unless you meant something totally different than how this sounds, then you and all who support this Govt as it is whether Repubs are in or Democraps then you're all hypocrites.
To make my point:
Were in the midst of one of the most Draconian gun control bills, and if it passes it has the propensity or ability to turn us all into felons and or criminal. (Those that actually give an sh*t that is). And if it does and passed the muster of Court which it will. Someone will get caught violating it and you and other as yourself will say "Well, he/they deserved it they broke the law". Makes me sick when I hear that and is nothing more than Hypocrocy. Frick law and order if you don't have freedom I say!

Well. Aren't you a charmer.

You obviously don't know me, or understand what I said. And I'm too old, and tired, and sick to care about your rant or your opinion.

Can't recall the last time someone called me a hypocrite. Classy.

Apologize, sir, and let's be friendly.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Well. Aren't you a charmer.

You obviously don't know me, or understand what I said. And I'm too old, and tired, and sick to care about your rant or your opinion.

Can't recall the last time someone called me a hypocrite. Classy.

Apologize, sir, and let's be friendly.

you weren't the only one I said that to. I knew exactly what you meant you were talking about all the black youths who've been shot latley, and their family called them good if that's not what you meant then... But no. And too old? I'm old as well, but care less about how things are going. Look at my pic that's what needs to happen, but more likely will be a left vs right thing rather than us vs Govt.
If you didn't mean as I said and being snarky about how they all deserved to be shot then I will appologise, but if not then no.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Well. Aren't you a charmer.

You obviously don't know me, or understand what I said. And I'm too old, and tired, and sick to care about your rant or your opinion.

Can't recall the last time someone called me a hypocrite. Classy.

Apologize, sir, and let's be friendly.

and too old to care? Tyranny is comeing more and more and that's what you go,t too old? God I feel sorry for this country.
seriously, what should of happened not too long after the Civil War hasn't; which probably wouldn't have mattered anyhow, but still...
and sick...? well me too (cancer) and sick of this world and how messed up people are becoming.
THose that pretend to care don't While those that actually do, are called bad because they don't live by society's stupid rules, and because they've seen enough of society's games, and BS because their bored! or alternative motives?
I don't believe this guy deserved to be shot no matter what and those that feel he did are hypocrties.

 

[Howard1955]

and too old to care? Tyranny is comeing more and more and that's what you go,t too old? God I feel sorry for this country.
seriously, what should of happened not too long after the Civil War hasn't; which probably wouldn't have mattered anyhow, but still...
and sick...? well me too (cancer) and sick of this world and how messed up people are becoming.
THose that pretend to care don't While those that actually do, are called bad because they don't live by society's stupid rules, and because they've seen enough of society's games, and BS because their bored! or alternative motives?
I don't believe this guy deserved to be shot no matter what and those that feel he did are hypocrties.

Ignored.

 

[American123]

A person in/on their own property, not hurting anyone, unhappy to have the cops show up, because honestly, unless you called for them you generally don't want them at your property (nothing personal LEO's).

I find it hard to fault the property owner in this case. Definitely could have told the LEO to leave his property without a firearm in hand, that being said. It's perfectly legal to carry a firearm, even in hand, a rifle for that matter.

We all have our opinions, but I think personal property is just that, personal. That's where it becomes the greater issue for me, if I'm on my own property, carrying as I always do, I sure don't want the cops rolling up on my personal property or telling me what to do while on it, they don't own your property.

Just like you don't have any right to tell a cop what to do while at his/her own house. As long as he wasn't in the commission of a serious crime, leave people the hell alone.

 

[slimmer13]

A person in/on their own property, not hurting anyone, unhappy to have the cops show up, because honestly, unless you called for them you generally don't want them at your property (nothing personal LEO's).

I find it hard to fault the property owner in this case. Definitely could have told the LEO to leave his property without a firearm in hand, that being said. It's perfectly legal to carry a firearm, even in hand, a rifle for that matter.

We all have our opinions, but I think personal property is just that, personal. That's where it becomes the greater issue for me, if I'm on my own property, carrying as I always do, I sure don't want the cops rolling up on my personal property or telling me what to do while on it, they don't own your property.

Just like you don't have any right to tell a cop what to do while at his/her own house. As long as he wasn't in the commission of a serious crime, leave people the hell alone.

Just out of curiosity, what makes you dismiss the multiple deputies side of the story who say Mr Johnson pointed his gun directly at them on more than one occasion?

 

[American123]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you dismiss the multiple deputies side of the story who say Mr Johnson pointed his gun directly at them on more than one occasion?

Clearly pointing a gun (at anyone) can be problematic, regardless of being LEO or not. It's just not something you should do unless you are intending on shooting. For example, if someone is pointing a gun at me, unless it is out of sheer negligence, considering lethal force to stop that action would not be off the table.

That being said, if I was on someone else's personal property without being asked to be there and they told me to leave, even if they were holding a firearm telling me to leave and maybe because they are agitated they are waving it around while they are yelling at me to leave, does that mean I can draw and kill them on their own property because they have a gun and want me to leave and I'm there?

Tough to say. Tough to say. Then again, I don't make a habit of going to peoples private property without invitation to do so.

For me the bigger issue is the location than the action. If he's on his own private property, leave him alone, it appears to me that the situation was created by the police presence which was unnecessary to begin with IMO. If he was walking down the street flailing a firearm around agitatedly and not responding to LEO commands, sure drop him, no tears from me.

The fact that he was on his own personal property when all this unfolded and it stemmed from an LEO going to his personal property to begin with, it's tough to blame someone who prior to the police being there was not breaking the law, the police show up and now he's dead. I adamantly very much believe in the concept of personal property and the "state" (a concept of organized government in general) needing to butt out big time when it comes to people's personal property unless engaged in serious crimes. Personally I don't even believe property taxes are lawful, the fact that you must pay taxes to the city/state for the entire life of ownership operates under the notion that the state in fact owns all property and you as long term leaser of the land must pay rent your entire life to them, but that's unrelated to this topic.

An example I will give you is the city of Seattle has ordinances stating what you can keep on your personal property. They can and will fine a homeowner if they don't keep their property according to how the city wants.

Have a wheelbarrow? you actually aren't alllowed to keep that in your yard in public view. Is that ridiculous, totally. The list goes on and it's a tremendous amount of overreach by the "state." Why is this relevant, because at the end of the day if .gov doesn't like what you are doing they will send LEO to your door and if you don't comply peacefully and subject yourself to whatever they desire you can end up dead all on your own personal property and all because .gov paid a visit.

Support your local LEO most definitely, but acknowledge that they at the end of the day are also just people and can/are utilized at times to enforce unnecessary laws on otherwise law abiding people.

 

[slimmer13]

Clearly pointing a gun (at anyone) can be problematic, regardless of being LEO or not. It's just not something you should do unless you are intending on shooting. For example, if someone is pointing a gun at me, unless it is out of sheer negligence, considering lethal force to stop that action would not be off the table.

That being said, if I was on someone else's personal property without being asked to be there and they told me to leave, even if they were holding a firearm telling me to leave and maybe because they are agitated they are waving it around while they are yelling at me to leave, does that mean I can draw and kill them on their own property because they have a gun and want me to leave and I'm there?

Tough to say. Tough to say. Then again, I don't make a habit of going to peoples private property without invitation to do so.

For me the bigger issue is the location than the action. If he's on his own private property, leave him alone, it appears to me that the situation was created by the police presence which was unnecessary to begin with IMO. If he was walking down the street flailing a firearm around agitatedly and not responding to LEO commands, sure drop him, no tears from me.

The fact that he was on his own personal property when all this unfolded and it stemmed from an LEO going to his personal property to begin with, it's tough to blame someone who prior to the police being there was not breaking the law, the police show up and now he's dead. I adamantly very much believe in the concept of personal property and the "state" (a concept of organized government in general) needing to butt out big time when it comes to people's personal property unless engaged in serious crimes. Personally I don't even believe property taxes are lawful, the fact that you must pay taxes to the city/state for the entire life of ownership operates under the notion that the state in fact owns all property and you as long term leaser of the land must pay rent your entire life to them, but that's unrelated to this topic.

An example I will give you is the city of Seattle has ordinances stating what you can keep on your personal property. They can and will fine a homeowner if they don't keep their property according to how the city wants.

Have a wheelbarrow? you actually aren't alllowed to keep that in your yard in public view. Is that ridiculous, totally. The list goes on and it's a tremendous amount of overreach by the "state." Why is this relevant, because at the end of the day if .gov doesn't like what you are doing they will send LEO to your door and if you don't comply peacefully and subject yourself to whatever they desire you can end up dead all on your own personal property and all because .gov paid a visit.

Support your local LEO most definitely, but acknowledge that they at the end of the day are also just people and can/are utilized at times to enforce unnecessary laws on otherwise law abiding people.

Philosophically speaking, I get your point and agree with you to some extent, but right now, the reality is that it is a role of LE to sometimes enter private property. If a family member asks for them to check on a possibly suicidal individual, that is a legitimate role of LE. If they didnt go check on him and he killed his wife, then himself, that could open up other liability issues.

So then once the crime was committed of pointing a gun directly at the deputy occurred, was he not supposed to tell his superiors and were they supposed that just let him slide? Again, if he killed someone, or even himself, the liability would then fall back on the SO, and the family would be screaming, "why didnt they stop him?"

 

[Geardo]

If they didnt go check on him and he killed his wife, then himself, that could open up other liability issues.

The courts have confirmed multiple times that LEO have no liability, no duty to protect. Therefore they would NOT be held liable. Morally speaking, sure maybe it was there duty to investigate, but morally (from my view) they should also have been able to let the dude slide.

You can't have it both ways, no duty to protect, but a duty to investigate where no crime has been comitted does not compute.