Washington Ruby Ridge lite

[Alexx1401]

Randy sawed off a shotgun like 1/2" too short, based on the mark the undercover fed gave him on the barrel.

I appreciate your final paragraph, that those mentioned did not deserve to die. I think we can all agree they made stupid decisions, but some of them were fighting for ideals they believed in.

The video evidence from inside the vehicle of finnicum sure sounds like HRT fires at the vehicle after they stopped the second time.

He was trying to make it to the sheriff to have a fair discussion, and was gunned down by overzealous feds and state police. Just ny humble opinion.

This gets run around the net a lot and it's NOT what Weaver said when I saw him interviewed. I watched an interview where he admitted he was stupid to do what he did. Said the guy wanted him to cut the shotgun to illegal length and Weaver knew it. He claimed the guy kept asking him so he finally did it for him for cash. Now I don't know if he is now decades later trying to change that story knowing it makes him sound like a rube or it it's still net gossip. when he first admitted it he said he knew what he was doing was illegal. He should have told the person to use the money he wanted to pay him to buy a damn hacksaw. How stupid do you need to be to let someone talk you into cutting off a shotgun barrel for you to an illegal length for money????
Granted the way it was handled after was a major FUBAR but Weaver walked right into that mess by his own stupidity.

 

[Geardo]

This gets run around the net a lot and it's NOT what Weaver said when I saw him interviewed. I watched an interview where he admitted he was stupid to do what he did. Said the guy wanted him to cut the shotgun to illegal length and Weaver knew it. He claimed the guy kept asking him so he finally did it for him for cash. Now I don't know if he is now decades later trying to change that story knowing it makes him sound like a rube or it it's still net gossip. when he first admitted it he said he knew what he was doing was illegal. He should have told the person to use the money he wanted to pay him to buy a damn hacksaw. How stupid do you need to be to let someone talk you into cutting off a shotgun barrel for you to an illegal length for money????
Granted the way it was handled after was a major FUBAR but Weaver walked right into that mess by his own stupidity.

Of course he was stupid, and probably an bubblegum, but he and his family didn't deserve to die over it.

 

[Alexx1401]

Of course he was stupid, and probably an bubblegum, but he and his family didn't deserve to die over it.

No they did not. As I said the way the whole thing was handled after he refused to go to court was a huge FUBAR. Back after this all shook out in court though I started seeing many posts on the old Usenet Boards claiming Weaver did not know he was breaking any laws when he cut that gun. Then I saw him on some show and he admitted that he did. So the bottom line is play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Now I don't know if he is now days changing this story or if this is still just people repeating what was going around back then.
When I was young and stupid I did a lot of playing around with firearms. Doing stuff I knew was trouble. When I look back on it now I wonder what he hell was wrong with me. Difference was I for one never sold stuff I was experimenting with to anyone. Also if I had been caught doing it I would not have hold up in my home daring the Police to come and get me. There was a whole lot of stupidity going around up there and it cost 3 people their lives and left Weaver the rest of his life to regret those poor choices he made.

 

[Alexx1401]

We don't know if this guy was "scum" or just a cranky old man.

When I said that I was not, repeat NOT referring to this guy. From what I have seen so far this one "looks" a lot like someone who was having some mental health issues.
When I talk about scum getting shot I mean the never ending stories about some scum who clearly gets himself shot by Cops for good reason. If he is a minority here come the cameras looking for the family. Then we start reading said scum had a HUGE arrest record. Yet here come the family with all the "he was just getting his life back on track.............." This is a very, VERY, old story. Just keeps getting worse as the media are always looking for the next 24/7 news story to paint Cops in a bad light. Examples go back decades.
There is also a few where it's someone who has serious mental health issues and owns guns. Bad combination. Then when Cops get involved and end up having to shoot the kook, again here come the family screaming for cash. Of course that same family did not want to go take the guns away from someone they could clearly see should not have access to firearms though. They just want to Police to magically go in and force the kook to get help and ignore him threatening to shoot them.

 

[Geardo]

When I said that I was not, repeat NOT referring to this guy. From what I have seen so far this one "looks" a lot like someone who was having some mental health issues.
When I talk about scum getting shot I mean the never ending stories about some scum who clearly gets himself shot by Cops for good reason. If he is a minority here come the cameras looking for the family. Then we start reading said scum had a HUGE arrest record. Yet here come the family with all the "he was just getting his life back on track.............." This is a very, VERY, old story. Just keeps getting worse as the media are always looking for the next 24/7 news story to paint Cops in a bad light. Examples go back decades.
There is also a few where it's someone who has serious mental health issues and owns guns. Bad combination. Then when Cops get involved and end up having to shoot the kook, again here come the family screaming for cash. Of course that same family did not want to go take the guns away from someone they could clearly see should not have access to firearms though. They just want to Police to magically go in and force the kook to get help and ignore him threatening to shoot them.

Totally agree. Sorry for the misinterpretation!

 

[Alexx1401]

Totally agree. Sorry for the misinterpretation!

No prob, I do feel very bad for the shoots where it's someone who just goes off the deep end. It is sad, but also makes me angry when family, who clearly knew this person was having problems, did nothing until death. Then they want cash since the Police shot the person. If some day I start to act like I am "losing it" I would hope my family would just take my guns from me. Just like driving. I have LONG felt that after a certain age it should be mandatory to pass a test drive to keep a license. Yes it sucks when some senior loses the privilege but I see people who are deadly out there. If I had my way? At a certain age it would be a driving test. People of that age should get appointments, and they should be free. Run them through fast and just make sure they can still drive and not kill others. I will never forget the old lady in front of me one day who could not see or hear. Daughter screaming in her ear the questions, could not pass the eye test, so she was given a daylight only license. I thought great, she can only run down people during the day time.

 

[No_Regerts]

The post count on this thread will be rivaling the Guns and Girls thread soon.

 

[Geardo]

The post count on this thread will be rivaling the Guns and Girls thread soon.

Thanks for the reminder I need to request access to the tavern.

 

[Herb g]

So, if Randy was stupid, which agreed he was, what does that make the Fed leo's who badgered him into it?...and I believe Finicum was fired upon at the first stop, too, that's why he ran. Those crazy moves he made when he got out could have been a plea for martyrdom by cop in a very stressful situation. But, the g-men there made sure to help him out with a plant of stolen serial# in his pocket...but they made a slip up, by dropping it in barrel up. Yes, the stolen pistol was taken from his pocket - barrel up.

 

[Alexx1401]

So, if Randy was stupid, which agreed he was, what does that make the Fed leo's who badgered him into it?...and I believe Finicum was fired upon at the first stop, too, that's why he ran. Those crazy moves he made when he got out could have been a plea for martyrdom by cop in a very stressful situation. But, the g-men there made sure to help him out with a plant of stolen serial# in his pocket...but they made a slip up, by dropping it in barrel up. Yes, the stolen pistol was taken from his pocket - barrel up.

Both men are dead due to really poor choices. The "others made them do it" is really beyond me. This is not grade school where you can tell Mom and Dad, "well I did it because Fred and Sally told me too". Don't want to get shot? Don't do really stupid crap like this and chances are you will not end up dead. It is amazing that so many adults want an out for everything based on what they did was somehow someone else's fault. Thinking like this is what leads to so many laws aimed at no longer allowing people to make their own choices. The logic being that if allowed to make them they will not make the right ones. So we need laws to tell them how to live "for their own good". <sigh>

 

[mkwerx]

Both men are dead due to really poor choices. The "others made them do it" is really beyond me. This is not grade school where you can tell Mom and Dad, "well I did it because Fred and Sally told me too". Don't want to get shot? Don't do really stupid crap like this and chances are you will not end up dead. It is amazing that so many adults want an out for everything based on what they did was somehow someone else's fault. Thinking like this is what leads to so many laws aimed at no longer allowing people to make their own choices. The logic being that if allowed to make them they will not make the right ones. So we need laws to tell them how to live "for their own good". <sigh>

Randy Weaver is alive and well. His wife and infant son died. The piece of sh!t that murdered them got a medal, retired, and now shills for a gun maker. Even if Randy Weaver was an idiot, even if he knew he was breaking the law, his wife and baby did NOTHING to deserve their fate. Lon Horiuchi needs snatched up by a bunch of big angry bikers, stuffed in a duffel bag, beaten, then thrown in a shallow grave. He's scum, scum with a badge.

The incident in the OP is no Ruby Ridge, even if the dead guy was innocent.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Weaver case!? I care less if it's the law or not barrel length has no right to be regulated whatsoever. So the govt goading him to, to do something that should be illegal in the first place They're the traitors to the original intent of the bill of rights.
Makes me sick how so many supposed supporters of the bill of rights defend the law and LEO in these cases.
But unless Jesus Christ returns as promised its only going to get worse. Romans 13 had nothing to do with secular Govt. It had to do with the Church and it's leaders and those that be of God.
The "They made they're choice as it's said above and others makes me sick".
OR the Darwin award garbage. I hate those statements because it says we came from monkeys and they accept that as true and it is not!
OR the point a gun etc... you deserve what you got crap Makes me sick.
Obviously the come take my guns you get lead statements are just that!! Makes me sick!

 

[slimmer13]

Randy Weaver is alive and well. His wife and infant son died. The piece of sh!t that murdered them got a medal, retired, and now shills for a gun maker. Even if Randy Weaver was an idiot, even if he knew he was breaking the law, his wife and baby did NOTHING to deserve their fate. Lon Horiuchi needs snatched up by a bunch of big angry bikers, stuffed in a duffel bag, beaten, then thrown in a shallow grave. He's scum, scum with a badge.

The incident in the OP is no Ruby Ridge, even if the dead guy was innocent.

The older Weaver boy was killed (12 or 13 I think). The baby was not hurt.

 

[notazombie]

The thread title really doesn't fit this case. The Weaver situation was an active government legal case, essentially a sting operation that went waaay sideways. This welfare check case is a completely different animal. Only real commonality is the state they happened in.

 

[mkwerx]

The older Weaver boy was killed (12 or 13 I think). The baby was not hurt.

Ah you're right it was Randy and the baby that lived.

 

[slimmer13]

Ah you're right it was Randy and the baby that lived.

And Sara. She wrote a book I think and does a lot of speaking.

 

[Geardo]

The thread title really doesn't fit this case. The Weaver situation was an active government legal case, essentially a sting operation that went waaay sideways. This welfare check case is a completely different animal. Only real commonality is the state they happened in.

Both were .gov over reaction, and depending on what version of events is true, itchy trigger fingers.

 

[Alexx1401]

Weaver case!? I care less if it's the law or not barrel length has no right to be regulated whatsoever. So the govt goading him to, to do something that should be illegal in the first place They're the traitors to the original intent of the bill of rights.
Makes me sick how so many supposed supporters of the bill of rights defend the law and LEO in these cases.
But unless Jesus Christ returns as promised its only going to get worse. Romans 13 had nothing to do with secular Govt. It had to do with the Church and it's leaders and those that be of God.
The "They made they're choice as it's said above and others makes me sick".
OR the Darwin award garbage. I hate those statements because it says we came from monkeys and they accept that as true and it is not!
OR the point a gun etc... you deserve what you got crap Makes me sick.
Obviously the come take my guns you get lead statements are just that!! Makes me sick!

You can "get sick" all day and night and it will change nothing. We live in a society. That comes with laws and rules. Do I like all of them? No. There is a way to change them and gun owners choose wrong every 2 years. So keep getting sick, and watch gun owners vote away their rights while you tell them how sick you are of Government, who the gun owners vote in.
I keep hoping beyond hope that a huge bunch of the gun owning public will finally get enough and use the vote to make changes. So far no luck. As for the rhetoric of "if they come for mine they get the lead", makes a great bumper sticker and again does nothing. Statements like that are what the left just LOVES. They use them to paint all of us as kooks. Out of the thousands who make such statements once in a blue moon one will actually try. They of course are fodder for another 24/7 news cycle of how gun owners are kooks because they took shots at Cops.

 

[No_Regerts]

Both were .gov over reaction, and depending on what version of events is true, itchy trigger fingers.

If the dude pointed a gun at a fully marked and identifiable LEO who was working in the scope of their duties, he committed a felony. One of a few felonies that would likely get you prison time on the first offense. From there, it was just the job title. Enforcing the law.

 

[Alexx1401]

If the dude pointed a gun at a fully marked and identifiable LEO who was working in the scope of their duties, he committed a felony. One of a few felonies that would likely get you prison time on the first offense. From there, it was just the job title. Enforcing the law.

This is what makes me think it very well may have been a mental health issue. If he did point a gun at an LEO I would guess he had gone off the deep end. I would also guess the family had to know things were not going well for him. I very much doubt that if this is what happened, it just came on all of a sudden. There was most likely a lot of warning signs that something was wrong and getting worse. Sadly again if this is what happened it cost him his life.