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Recent Attack: Lessons Learned

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by OFADAN, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Here is an email sent from John Farnam...with some valuable lessons for all of to ponder:

    ---------------
    25 Mar 09

    Lessons from calamity. This from a friend in VA:

    "This past Sunday, at 5:00 AM, a young couple was jogging together, as they regularly did, in the local neighborhood where they lived, only a few miles from where I live.

    Both were precipitously attacked by multiple VCAs. The man was murdered (beaten to death), and the woman is in the hospital, in critical condition.
    Police have no leads nor significant evidence to reveal the identity of the attackers. The woman may recover enough to provide information. She may not!
    The attackers, two or three, emerged from a parked car and used baseball bats or similar blunt instruments. Robbery was the apparent motive, at least at the beginning.

    These facts have emerged:

    (1) Both victims were CCW-permit holders, but neither was armed at the time and place of the fatal attack.

    (2) The man was a decorated Special Forces Soldier (retired), trained in hand-to-hand fighting.

    (3) The attack took place in broad-daylight, in a quiet, upscale, residential community.

    The community is stunned, of course. Police are doing the best they can, but cases where attackers and victims don't know each other and have no obvious connection are difficult to solve."

    Lessons:

    (1) We call them "side-arms" for a reason. At least one needs to be "at your side" all the time. Aspire to be a competent, self-contained, independent Operator.

    (2) Don't arbitrarily divide your life into "safe" and "dangerous" parts, places, nor activities. Fate may neglect to celebrate your dear fantasy!
    I know people who have CCW-permits, but don't carry, and they're ever-ready to treat me to a nauseating dissertation of their idiotic excuses. The foregoing exposes the lethal fallacy of such self-deceptive thinking.

    (3) When your spouse (either gender) is squeamish about "the whole gun-thing, " help them get over it. You need a partner, not a burden!

    (4) Be aware of "pattern-behavior." Regularly change-up routines. Don't become predictable. Stalkers will use your predictable routine against you, as was likely the case here.

    (5) Don't deceive yourself that your martial-arts training/prowess will protect you against heavy odds. No matter how many black-belts you have, against multiple, simultaneous VCAs, you will likely not prevail, when unarmed. A single, dashing hero, casually dispatching several bad guys with glamorous judo-moves, is something that happens only in movies!

    (6) "Police protection" is a contradiction of terms! Don't fill your head with false expectations with regard to actual services police can provide.

    Police investigators are basically "armed archeologists." We might catch these guys, and we might not. Patrol officers may be there to help you, and they may not. We get paid the same either way. And, whatever we manage to accomplish after you're dead, will probably be of scant interest to you anyway!
     
  2. wavo

    wavo Portland Member

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    Wow....How horrible. This is a great wake up call.

    Thanks for posting this. Some great points in here.
     
  3. XD45

    XD45 Salem, OR Member

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    OFADAN, thanks for the post. As a fellow CCW I am at fault of the above. I do carry most of the time, however I do find times where I become complacent at times. I do not carry at work, however due to clothing and dress I find it impossible to conceal a weapon as I normally do when i'm off work. I normally carry IWB on my own time but body type and having to tuck my work shirt in makes that difficult to conceal. What do you recommend for this instance. Would a small "backup" revolver be an acceptable carry option as an ankle carry piece? What are your thoughts. I have tried a Galco holster that a friend has that says you can where with a tucked in shirt however my body type does not allow for this to not show.

    Thanks for your wisdom!

    Kai
     
  4. FatherHolyHoly

    FatherHolyHoly MN Active Member

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    I went for a jog without my gun today. No problems. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

    I will go ahead and assume that Mr. Farnam has chosen to carry a sidearm at all times but why must he insist on insulting those who have made a choice that differs from his?

    Thanks for sharing the compelling story. Does anyone happen to have any particulars about the case, such as the date of occurrence and names of those involved? I'd like to follow the story for any updates on the pursuit of the attackers.
     
  5. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    What is the source of this story again? What information do we have to back it up? It kind of seems like an internet fairy tale to me until I see some colaberating evidence.
     
  6. Aristotle13

    Aristotle13 Kent, WA Member

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    Also curious to the age of the retired soldier. Out of curiousity.

    Ari

    " there is not gettin' ready, you STAY ready. "
     
  7. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    John is a good friend and highly reputable colleague and has an extensive world-wide network of like-minded individuals sending him accounts of self-defense related incidents for all of us to learn from. He teaches all over the world, is a decorated combat vet and retired LEO. John is a full time educator of the art and discpline of self defense and pistolcraft. Full time meaning he does this full time professionally and full time meaning this is all he "lives, eats and breaths." He helps people like us for pay and for free - as in providing these valuable after action reports for the purposes of learning from others successes, failures and mishaps.

    Anyway, I've asked John for more details and will post them if they become available. Most likely (this is purely supposition, John's source is someone within a government agency) However, for me I've learned an extremely valuable lesson and will cease submitting these after action reports for (what I thought was the) good of the community. Many of you seem to apprecate them while others took offense or are insulted which is not the purpose of this post.

    Therefore, please accept my most sincere apology if this After Action post failed to educate and is perceived as something to "insinuated or insult" as that is NOT the intent. The only reason I posted this was purely for education and awareness - validation for some of us.

    The top two links from newspapers are about the attack and the bottom (third one) talks briefly about his career with the CIA - they don't disclose much other than confirming the man who died did have a concealed carry permit and he is a former CIA Consultant.

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...n-by-Bizarre-Murder-Mystery.html?corder=&pg=1

    http://loudounextra.washingtonpost....sdowne-attack-appears-be-random-says-sheriff/

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Ex-CIA-Contractor-Killed-on-Loudoun-County-Trail.html
     
  8. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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    Thanks for the post, Dan.

    Here is the story for the PP types: another link.
     
  9. SheepDog223

    SheepDog223 Salem Well-Known Member

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    You can doubt the story all you want. That doesn't change the fact that it's not an unreasonable potential situation that may be presented to you at one point in your life. If I carry my whole life and don't need my handgun for self defence until I turn 85 it will all be worth it. If I carry my whole life and never need it, then hind sight says it was a waste of time and money. Until I can sucessfully predict the future, or my right is legally taken away, I will not be found unarmed.
     
  10. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    Thanks for the info. I have a CCW but only carry maybe once a month when i don't feel safe. I think I will carry more often, but how do you carry when you go jogging? A bouncing gun on gym shorts does not seem safe to me, maybe you can elaborate on how to effectivly and safely do this so we can all benefit.
     
  11. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    As horrible as it is to be seen wearing one, a fanny pack is what you would need.
     
  12. XD45

    XD45 Salem, OR Member

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    OFADAN, please do not stop posting. I feel in this day and time that anybody who is a member of this site should be the last to criticize a fellow member from exercising their right to post on an open forum on firearms. Especially when our 2nd Amendment rights are under such scrutiny. Why would any member of this site chastise a fellow member for exercising his First Amendment right? I do not feel OFADAN was "insulting" anybody for not carrying all the time, obviously he is in favor of it, however it is everybody's right to make that decision. As Jim Jacobe says, "we have the decision to either be a sheep or a Sheppard, in a world full of wolves!" There are "wolves" out there people, regardless of where you live or what you do! Know that only you can choose to be a "sheep" and have no control, or you can choose to be a "Sheppard" and protect your fellow man.

    OFADAN, please keep posting your updates, I thoroughly enjoy reading them, and I would hope many others on this site do as well. Please voice your support for posts like this if you feel so compelled!

    Thanks.

    Kai
     
  13. SheepDog223

    SheepDog223 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Ankle holster with sweatpants. A kel-tec in a soft pouch. Hydration pack might look cooler than a fannypak. The problem is some don't think that they need a gun until they feel unsafe. See the problem? Your walking around the mall, market, starbucks, whatever. An armed and mentally disturbed guy walkes in and starts shooting. Now you feel unsafe and... To bad, to late and game over. It's not about how we feel. Do you go buy a fire extinguisher when you feel there is a fire. Crazy isn't it?
    There is evil out there and some people let it make desicions for them. When or if one decides that the potential risk is not worth the potential loss he or she will find a way to carry in every or most situations.
     
  14. wou42

    wou42 Portland Active Member

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    +1 to XD45's Post. I enjoyed the post and regardless of authenticity (which it proved true) it is good to make people aware and to learn lessons from others. Thanks!!!
     
  15. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    kortera, I jogged with a pistol up until my back got so bad I can no longer do this...so I walk briskly instead.

    However my two business partners always jog with a handgun, and several other tools i.e. cell phone, flashlight, two folding knives and often with OC.
    Doc, one of my biz partners who recently passed on, RIP, was a marathon runner and ran 5 to 6 days a week and even ran in two Boston Marathons with his handgun! It can be done.

    Fanny pack, belly band, and even a OWB holster can work - you've just got to be creative and learn what works best for you. I used to wear regular shorts that have belt loops - and carried with an OWB and Tee over the top...others use a fanny pack. I always carry at least two clip on folding knives along with my cell phone. Some of our students are jogging with a Taser secured in a belt holster...many are jogging with the 2oz can of FOX OC in their support hand while jogging to thwart of two and four legged threats.

    Kai and others...thanks for the vote of confidence and support...btw Kai, Jim is good people! And your right on target with his quote!
     
  16. Dutchy556

    Dutchy556 Bend, OR Member

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    What a shame, though there is certainly a lesson to be taken away from this incident.

    Thanks for posting Dan, and yeah please don't stop posting such reports... Ignore the "prove it" folks, if they knew who John is or knew you I should think they'd know you're not posting some BS in the first place.


    Bottom line is: It doesn't even matter if the story is true or not, which obviously it is. Bad things happen to people, when/where you would least expect it, with unfortunate frequency. If you doubt it you're in denial or a fool.

    If you think that there are certain places you go or activities you engage in where there just isn't a chance of a violent encounter, you are wrong. The odds may be slim but they're there. It's up to you to decide what odds you're prepared to beat when you walk out the door. Simple as that.

    I don't think the intent behind Dan's post was that anyone who chooses not to carry 24/7 be insulted, but just to make people think about the steps they take to ensure their safety and if they are really taking all the steps that they can or feel that they should.

    Good discussion on carrying while jogging, carry on....
     
  17. fingolfen

    fingolfen Oregon Member

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    Sage points to take to heart...

    I go feed our horses after dark most nights. I carry to the barn and back...
     
  18. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    OFADAN,

    Thanks for the links. From what I am reading I am betting there is nothing random about this attack at all. I know my investigative skills are rusty, it has been awhile since my CID days, but this smells a bit fishy to me. This case would definitely set off all the red flags for anyone investigating it. For this to be random, it would have to be a very rare thing.

    Side note: I always carry my CCW. At least as close to always as possible. I have left the house and forgotten it one or two times. I even left the house with an unloaded gun in my holster one time. :eek: Every time someone does a poll on how many people always carry their weapon the number of people that say they do comes in very high, but I always wonder how realistic those numbers really are.
     
  19. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    Thanks for the story and Sheepdog thanks for the hydration pack info, my feeble little brain somehow passed over that(probably because I don't yet own one). I usually do some light jogging after work once summer rolls around. I am a fair weather excerciser lol.
     
  20. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    My question is, why joggers? Who carries valuables with them when they're jogging..?

    Surely a well designed holster would solve this, as well as being made out of proper synthetic materials than can be washed.