question about the my situation of transfering a firearm back to my home of record

[One-Eyed Ross]

OK, guys. You're talking apples and oranges here. Please read what was posted: "For the purposes of the Gun control act"...it has nothing to do with driving, voting, taxes or anything else. All federal law does is say that a GI, "for the purposes of the gun control act" is a resident of the state of his permanent duty station. ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE GUN CONTROL ACT. Not driving, not voting, nothing else. That's why a GI can buy a pistol in what ever state he/she is stationed in....

edited to add, for the original poster: Bring that puppy home, drink a beer, relax and enjoy. repeat as needed.

 

[wired]

The question is "can the GI buy a pistol in his home of record state AND his duty station state." Letter of the law says no. Phone call with possibly dimwit bureaucrats says yes.

 

[oasis618]

 

[bcp]

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

------------------------------------------
"Permanent duty station" established residence on one state. Being home on leave, in the state where your home is located, is residence in another state. Therefore, the military member is one of those people in example 2 who has two states of residence.

Bruce

 

[zane]

You asked the same questions in this thread:

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ha...2-glock-17-gen-4-used-should-i-get-350-a.html

And got the same answers.... Bring it home with you. No paperwork necessary.

 

[wired]

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

------------------------------------------
"Permanent duty station" established residence on one state. Being home on leave, in the state where your home is located, is residence in another state. Therefore, the military member is one of those people in example 2 who has two states of residence.

Bruce

There are specific exemptions in the GCA for military members. It is military members we are talking about. Being on leave does NOT change your permanent duty status. Only a change of orders will do that. FOR THE PURPOSES OF the GCA and 18 USC 921 the military members residence is his permanent duty station state and a neighboring state if he resides there. It is very clearly spelled out.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

if the were some way to do it, I would download the entire CD the ATF sends me and post it...but while that would solve some discussions, it would waste a lot of band width...

 

[Nwcid]

if the were some way to do it, I would download the entire CD the ATF sends me and post it...but while that would solve some discussions, it would waste a lot of band width...

You mean this? ATF Online - Firearms - Industry

I get them too and all the same info can be found there.

 

[wired]

I know no one here really cares what the law says but heres another one from the ATF site. ...

Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the Brady Act. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of the transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee's residence address. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located.

Section 921(b) of the GCA provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located. The purchaser's official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located suffice to establish the purchaser's residence for GCA purposes. In combination with a military identification card, such orders will satisfy the Brady Act's requirement for an identification document, even though the purchaser may actually reside in a home that is not located on the military base.

Licensees should note that for purposes of the GCA, military personnel may in some cases have two States of residence. For example, a member of the Armed Forces whose permanent duty station is Fort Benning, Georgia, may actually reside in a home in Alabama. For GCA purposes, that individual is a resident of Georgia when he or she is in Georgia and a resident of Alabama when he or she is in Alabama. If such an individual wishes to purchase a firearm in Alabama, he or she must of course comply with the identification document requirement in the same way as any other Alabama resident.



You can look all you want but NOWHERE in the law does it state that for the purposes of purchasing firearms you are still a resident of your home of record even if you maintain a drivers license in that state. Voting and taxes and finance and all that are different but firearms purchases are a separate and unique category under the law. I would absolutely LOVE to be wrong. I'm not. If you feel I am PLEASE post the pertinent statute proving otherwise. The GCA is abundantly clear on the subject. Somebody told me this or I heard that or it makes common sense that...aren't going to hold up in court.

 

[Redcap]

I know no one here really cares what the law says but heres another one from the ATF site. ...

Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the Brady Act. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of the transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee's residence address. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located.

Held further, a purchaser who is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, and may satisfy the identification document requirement by presenting his or her military identification card along with official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is located within the State where the licensed premises are located.

You're right about that one.

 

[pchewn]

YES: Bruce got it correct.

This person while in TX (stationed in TX) is a resident of TX.
This person while in (home state) is a resident of (home state).

What's so complicated about that?

 

[wired]

The person while stationed in TX is a resident of TX. That same person while visiting home state on leave is still a resident of TX. If he ETS's back to home state he becomes a resident of home state. If he gets orders to another PDS he becomes a resident of that state. Read the law. Common sense does not come into play here. Its not complicated.

YES: Bruce got it correct.

This person while in TX (stationed in TX) is a resident of TX.
This person while in (home state) is a resident of (home state).

What's so complicated about that?

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

The person while stationed in TX is a resident of TX. That same person while visiting home state on leave is still a resident of TX. If he ETS's back to home state he becomes a resident of home state. If he gets orders to another PDS he becomes a resident of that state. Read the law. Common sense does not come into play here. Its not complicated.

no, no, et no. Please read the law again...especially this bit: "Licensees should note that for purposes of the GCA, military personnel may in some cases have two States of residence. For example, a member of the Armed Forces whose permanent duty station is Fort Benning, Georgia, may actually reside in a home in Alabama. For GCA purposes, that individual is a resident of Georgia when he or she is in Georgia and a resident of Alabama when he or she is in Alabama. If such an individual wishes to purchase a firearm in Alabama, he or she must of course comply with the identification document requirement in the same way as any other Alabama resident."

 

[wired]

Only applies if he actually resides in Alabama as in maintains a home there. That only works with neighboring states IF the service member resides in the state neighboring his duty station state. Its in the ATF FAQ. Home of record does not mean residence. Home of record only means the military pays you to go back there when you get out, you pay state tax ( or not) for that state and you get to absentee vote there and you may maintain a drivers license. The GCA makes you a resident of the state you live in and it defines the state you live in and makes allowances for living in one state and being stationed in a neighboring state but it does not allow you to use your home of record state as your resident state unless you actually live in that state or are stationed there. Read the regs.

 

[bcp]

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

If the military member maintains a home in his home state, he is a resident of that state when home, just as a civilian is. He doesn't lose that by serving his country.

Bruce

 

[wired]

The actual rights afforded service members are spelled clearly in the 68 GCA and subsequently in 18USC 921b. Residency rights for the purposes of firearms purchase are clearly spelled out on the ATF form 4473 on the directions section for question number 13. Those rights for military members on active duty are clearly spelled out and do indeed differ from those of the general population.

 

[Sponkmeister]

Wired, Shut up.

When he's in TX, based on his permanent duty station, he can go buy a gun in TX. If he comes home to OR, yes even on leave, if he sees a firearm that catches his eye, he can buy it there. You even spell out the exemption:
Licensees should note that for purposes of the GCA, military personnel may in some cases have two States of residence.

In this case, he is technically a resident of OR, that's where he's from, and TX, where he's stationed. There is no law being broken. you're just being a prick because you've been called out. Better to just leave it alone, because at this point, you're just making yourself look like the north end of a southbound mule.

 

[wired]

No. I'm being a prick because I spent years building and selling firearms and I had to make sure laws were not being broken. Not because I really like those laws but because Ive known people go to jail for trying to go around the law and do things their way or in ways they thought made sense even if they were in violation. Its a very sensitive subject when dealing with servicemembers and firearms. Special provisions in gun laws exist for servicemembers and those provisions are very easy to read and understand and equally as easy to totally ignore.

Yes servicemebers may have two states of residency as noted in the ATF regulations. The example given by the ATF concerned Ft Benning. That example was given because Benning is in Alabama and Georgia and many of the Soldiers stationed at Benning live in Alabama. They have residency in both states and that example is true for many postings in the US. It does not apply to Texas and Oregon. Once again please cite federal law that state otherwise if you feel I am in error. No one has done so as of yet.

Wired, Shut up.

When he's in TX, based on his permanent duty station, he can go buy a gun in TX. If he comes home to OR, yes even on leave, if he sees a firearm that catches his eye, he can buy it there. You even spell out the exemption:
Licensees should note that for purposes of the GCA, military personnel may in some cases have two States of residence.

In this case, he is technically a resident of OR, that's where he's from, and TX, where he's stationed. There is no law being broken. you're just being a prick because you've been called out. Better to just leave it alone, because at this point, you're just making yourself look like the north end of a southbound mule.

"Section 921(b) of the GCA provides that a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located. The purchaser's official orders showing that his or her permanent duty station is within the State where the licensed premises are located suffice to establish the purchaser's residence for GCA purposes. In combination with a military identification card, such orders will satisfy the Brady Act's requirement for an identification document, even though the purchaser may actually reside in a home that is not located on the military base.

Licensees should note that for purposes of the GCA, military personnel may in some cases have two States of residence. For example, a member of the Armed Forces whose permanent duty station is Fort Benning, Georgia, may actually reside in a home in Alabama. For GCA purposes, that individual is a resident of Georgia when he or she is in Georgia and a resident of Alabama when he or she is in Alabama. If such an individual wishes to purchase a firearm in Alabama, he or she must of course comply with the identification document requirement in the same way as any other Alabama resident. "


At no point in any federal regulations concerning military members purchasing firearms is there anything stating that the servicemember is still a resident of his original home of record state for the purposes of purchasing a firearm either from a dealer or from an individual. Its just not there. What IS there is a stipulation that

"a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located"

with provisions for when the servicemember has a home in a neighboring state.

Question 13 on the 4473 asks for state of residency and is explained in the directions. Read it and then show me where it says the servicemember is still a resident of his original home of record.



<broken link removed> ...

SALES TO MILITARY PERSONNEL &#8211;
RESIDENCY VERIFICATION
ATF has been asked to clarify how and when a
license dealer may sell a firearm to someone who is
on active duty with the Armed Forces. In
particular, how does the licensee verify that the
military person is a resident of their State and
therefore entitled to purchase a firearm? An active
duty member of the Armed Forces may have
more than one State of residence. The Gun
Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of
the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of
the State in which his or her permanent duty station
is located. However, the GCA's general definition
of State of residence may also apply to some
active duty members. The general definition of
State of residence is the State in which an individual
resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she
is present in a State with an intention of making a
home in the State. If a member of the Armed
Forces maintains a home in one State and the
member's permanent duty station is in a nearby
State to which he or she commutes each day, then
the member is considered a resident of both the
State in which his or her duty station is located and
the State in which his or her home is maintained,
and he or she may purchase a firearm in either
State.
As directed by the instructions contained in the
Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473,
any member of the Armed Forces on active duty
acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her
permanent duty station is located who does not
reside at his or her permanent duty station, must
list both his or her permanent duty station address
and his or her residence address in response to
Question 2. Further, in situations where the
transferee is an active duty military member
acquiring a firearm where his or her duty station is
located, but he or she has a driver's license from
another State, you should list the transferee's
military identification card and official orders
showing where his or her permanent duty station is
located in response to Question 18a.
Here are some examples:
Andrews Air Force Base is located in Maryland. A
member of the Armed Forces stationed at
Andrews Air Force Base who resides in Virginia,
but commutes to work at Andrews Air Force Base
would be considered to be a resident of both
Virginia and Maryland. However, a member
stationed at Andrews who resides in Maryland
would be considered only to be a resident of
Maryland.
The Ft. Campbell Army Base is physically located
in two States; part of the base is located in
Kentucky and part of the base is located in
Tennessee. Given this unusual fact, under the
GCA, a member of the Armed Forces who is
stationed at Ft. Campbell Army Base would be
considered a resident of both Kentucky and
Tennessee regardless of the State in which the
member maintained his or her residence.

18USC 921(b) ( The gun control act of 1968 )

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf


(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in which his
permanent duty station is located.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

well, you know, if what you are saying is true, then why do service members pay state income tax to their state home of record (where they enlisted at unless changed) even when stationed somewhere else? Nothing in the law says they have to live in the state next door, that was just the example used. you may have built and sold firearms for years, but you don't appear to understand the law all that well, I'm guessing....

 

[wired]

Because the Gun Control Act deals only with guns. Stop guessing and start reading. They pay tax in the state they sign up in because everything else is covered in a different law. Same with voting and finances and all the other stuff a service member does. Much of that is covered under the Servicemembers Relief Act. The ATF makes provisions for living in a different state because they understand that some bases are close proximity to other states and there will be service members doing that and that many of those bases or on multiple states such as the example given Ft Benning and others . Because of the wording of 18 USC 921b though they cant just give a blanket " buy handguns wherever you want including your home state. Residency to the ATF is actual residency and not home of record residency. Not also the ATF does not allow for TDY or extended transfers when on other bases. They require the Permanent Duty Station only be the location of residence with a allowance for living near the post..


For the purposes of this chapter, a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in which his
permanent duty station is located.