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question about the my situation of transfering a firearm back to my home of record

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by x1hunter89, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. x1hunter89

    x1hunter89 gresham oregon Active Member

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    im in the military i bought a glock17 from a buddy FTF have bill of sale im in tx i read the laws about oregon but im getting out and my home of record is oregon so im heading back their so would it be ok for me to drive back with it and use the bill of sale when i get to oregon to transfer it to my name damn oregon and their gun laws lol any info would help thank you
     
  2. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    You do not need to take any action to "transfer it to my name". Just bring it to Oregon. You are changing your residence from TX to OR. You bought the gun in TX as a TX resident and are now moving back to OR. Nothing for you to do, no registration required. You are OK.
     
  3. Jerry

    Jerry Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    What pchewn said is correct.
     
  4. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Your military home of record doesnt make any difference to the ATF or anyone except the military. You were a resident of Texas. Now your'e going to be a resident of Oregon. There is no gun registration in Oregon. Relax. have a beer.
     
  5. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiousity, what are the requirements for residency?
     
  6. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Oregon considers you a resident for the purposes of purchasing a handgun in Oregon as 90 days past the point where you move into the state. There are many ways of establishing proof of date of residency. Bills, pay stubs, state issued ID, drivers license, bills etc. You can have a drivers license from another state and still be an Oregon resident but residency is required.
     
  7. techieguy

    techieguy Well-Known Member

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    Unless you had a Texas drivers license you still are a Oregon resident(and always have been) but the AFT allows members of the miltary to purchase firearms in the state of their duty station... but this really doesn't matter as Oregon doesn't have any firearm registration... Bring it back and shoot it :)
     
  8. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Not true. Drivers privileges do not equal residency. Residency means residency. The DMV might give you a ticket for not getting a drivers license in your state of residency but the ATF is not the DMV. When you reside in Texas you are a Texas resident. When you reside in Oregon you are a Oregon resident. Texas won't force you to get a Texas drivers license while stationed there but that doesnt mean you reside in Oregon.

    From the ATF FAQ

    Q: What constitutes residency in a State?

    The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

    [18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]
     
  9. techieguy

    techieguy Well-Known Member

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    Don't take my word or experience...Here is the proof...
    Servicemembers Civil Relief Act (SCRA)

    Section 705 - Guarantee of residency for military personnel

    For the purposes of voting for any Federal office (as defined in section 301 of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 (2 U.S.C. 431)) or a State or local office, a person who is absent from a State in compliance with military or naval orders shall not, solely by reason of that absence--

    (1) be deemed to have lost a residence or domicile in that State, without regard to whether or not the person intends to return to that State;

    (2) be deemed to have acquired a residence or domicile in any other State; or

    (3) be deemed to have become a resident in or a resident of any other State.
     
  10. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    For the purposes of voting for any Federal office (as defined in section 301 of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 (2 U.S.C. 431)) or a State or local office

    Time to break out the alphabet

    Thats fine for voting , insurance and finance purposes but for the purposes of the BATF see above ATF FAQ for their rulings on the subject. The SCRA does not modify the '68 GCA or the FOPA.

    From United States Federal Law....

    18 U.S.C. 921(b)

    (b) For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed
    Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his
    permanent duty station is located.
     
  11. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Interesting My son is stationed on San Clemete Is in CA He is an E5 in the NAVY. Yet at Christmas while Home in Oregon using his Oregon drivers license he was able to buy a NEW hand gun from a Dealer at the local Gun Show his background check took a whopping 5 min to clear.

    He can aslo buy a handgun in CA should he desire since he is Stationed there. We double, triple quadruple checked this with both Oregon OSP and CA DOJ.

    he votes in Oregon and pays rent in CA

    so how does that "fit" with the above ATF info?
     
  12. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Thats easy. Your son broke Federal law. CA DOJ and Oregon OSP say its OK but federally he is stationed in CA so he is a resident for the purposes of the ATF and the gun control act . Not making it up here. Call the BATF whenever you have questions about what is legal by federal law. The state guys are going to be wrong 90% of the time. It didnt get flagged on NICS because he answered erroneously on the 4473 what his state of residency is. First page...down at the bottom. Your son lives in CA . He is a resident of CA for GCA purposes . For voting purposes and all that he is a resident of Oregon but Oregon isnt the one who could charge him with a federal crime. Not that that is ever going to happen if everyone keeps their mouth shut but prosecuted or not a federal crime has occurred. Your gun show dealer did you a dis-service by not knowing the law or not caring.
     
  13. Zombie Defense

    Zombie Defense Ridgefield Member

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    Sorry Wired but you are incorrect. Military person stationed out of state are subject to different resident requirement. If the above person has an Oregon driver license and is station in California. This person with his or her Military papers can show them to a FFL in California to purchase a firearm in the State given that they are stationed for over six months I believe is the timeline. But, the person must adhere to California law pertaining to the firearm.

    Your advise is very correct to check with the local ATF office. I have always found them to be helpful.
     
  14. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Please show me in the federal code where I am incorrect. I have already cited federal law showing that a person in the military is a resident of the state he is stationed in for the purposes of the Gun Control Act. I was a licensed dealer for 12 years and I know dealer regs pretty well. Read the 4473. REALLY read it.

    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

    Look at question number 13 then read the instructions for question number 13.

    atfv.jpg


    Once again...


    18 U.S.C. 921(b)

    (b) For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed
    Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his
    permanent duty station is located.


    Pretty cut and dry.

    My son is a stationed in Idaho and his home of record is Washington. He has a California drivers license. Legally by federal law he can only purchase handguns in Idaho. I want to give him a rifle and a handgun. To do that I would have to transfer the handgun to a dealer in Idaho. The rifle I could transfer to a Oregon dealer who could then transfer it to him.

    Sure. If you go to a dealer and fill out a 4473 and put your state of residence as Oregon and show him a Oregon drivers license and put down your adress as Oregon the dealer will do a NICS check and you'll get your gun and go home but that doesnt change the fact that you falsified information on the 4473. I won't let MY son do that because he has a top secret clearance he doesnt want to put in jeopardy.




    I have cited federal code and pertinent BATF regulations over and over again. I have seen nothing posted so far to contradict what I have posted. "I think" and "the state said it was OK" aren't going to cut it in federal court.
     
  15. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Just got off the phone with the Seattle Office of the ATF and was told that the military and the situation I detailed in my post above is exactly correct. My son due to his Oregon Drivers License and State of record would be able to purchase a firearm in the state of oregon just like any other resident of the state not otherwise prohibited. He would also be able to purchase in the State of CA by showing his orders that state hes stationed at a base in CA.

    The agent I talked to said Military has additional rules allowing this not shown on the 4473.

    So argue all you want I'm sticking with what I said and what my son who also has a high level clearance. It is very possible all the rules pertaining to purchase are not listed on the actual form! Like the one giving Military in this case dual residency.

    Otherwise if what your stating was true then a person in the Military stationed overseas would not be able to purchase a firearm at all. Yet that is not the case they can still purchase in their home state.
     
  16. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    The ATF field agents really need to read their own regulations before they hand out variances over the phone. The military has rules not shown on the 4473? Did he cite those regs? I was a dealer for years. I wouldnt have sold your son a handgun based upon the ATF's written regulations and United States law backed up by ATF dealer bulletins. The ATF agent you spoke to was wrong. Here is the number to the ATF in Washington DC where they can give you the real story. (202) 648-7080 .
     
  17. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    OK your right I'm sure your always right I give up.
     
  18. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    I'm giving you my guidance based on years of experience as a licensed dealer, manufacturer 02/07 SOT and licensed importer. If you chose to ignore that advice that is your prerogative but the law is the law and the BATF is not a very forgiving master. I have stated the facts and cited applicable regulations. I am sorry you do not appreciate that but how you want to proceed is your call. It will probably never be a problem for you or your son.
     
  19. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Called ATF via the number you offered was transfered to a nice lady who confirmed exactly what the agent in Seattle stated and is posted in my above post. She then added that her husband who was 30 years in the military made purchases exactly as I posted above both in his state of residence and in the state he was currently stationed in. Now I'm sure I could call every Agent in the country until I found one that had some other version of the regs but at this point I am completely done wasting my time trying to educate you on how this works.

    Have a pleasent day.
     
  20. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Its easy . Cite the regs. I'm sure the agents you spoke to are willing to defend you in court, correct ? I'm sure they told you the applicable regs that give you variance form the US Code so tell us what those are. The US Code via the 68 GCA is VERY clear on this subject.