National Polymer80 Raided By ATF

[JuglansRegia]

Well, our legal systems a complete joke, so anything's possible. However they are apparently trying to make the case that when sold with a parts kid a Polymer 80 receiver becomes a firearm. They're going to people's houses based on Polymer 80's complete parts kit customer list.

I would imagine the warrant request would be for exactly the number of Polymer 80 complete kits someone purchased, anything more would be a pure fishing expedition and any decent judge should refuse to expand the scope of their warrant beyond that.

So you think if the ATF serves a search warrant at a location that one of these kits shipped to and they find an unregistered machine gun or some other NFA item, they will just leave that and take whats on the warrant?

 

[Nutknocka]

Now that we're talking about it, I'm scratching my head at how they even got the warrant to raid Polymer 80 to begin with unless they straight up lied to a judge.

Judge: What do you think the crime here is?

ATF: we think polymer 80 is illegally selling firearms via mail order.

Judge: Sounds serious. What's your probable cause?

ATF: They are selling these pieces of plastic that we have assured them in writing are not considered firearms. They're also selling other gun parts which are not firearms. We believe that when you combine these two items that are legally not firearms they magically become a firearm. We have no statute or court precedent to justify this opinion.

Judge: OK....

Either the ATF grossly misrepresented their case, or the judge blatantly ignored the entire foundation of our legal system to give a bro hug to some fellow federal employees.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Judge: OK....

Either the ATF grossly misrepresented their case, or the judge blatantly ignored the entire foundation of our legal system to give a bro hug to some fellow federal employees.

probably a combination of both, I wonder how often the ATF's request for search warrants gets declined, probably not very often. Kind of like FISA warrants, didn't they have like a 97% approval rate.

 

[Nutknocka]

So you think if the ATF serves a search warrant at a location that one of these kits shipped to and they find an unregistered machine gun or some other NFA item, they will just leave that and take whats on the warrant?

No, there is no legal standard that demands that a law enforcement officer ignore illegal evidence they find well executing a search warrant for something else. However, a search warrant is for a particularized item(s). Once you have secured the item you are done. If a warrant is for something broad like any drugs concealed in the house, they can search everywhere even if they find some drugs, because there might be more. If the warrant is for one Polymer 80 kit, the search is over once they have the one Polymer 80 kit

If that Polymer 80 kit is in plain view as soon as you open the door, they take it and leave. If they start trashing the house or continue searchig instead of leaving and you capture it on tape:

1. They lose a big lawsuit (potentially both the government and the agents in their individual capacityas individuals, because I'm pretty sure Fourth Amendment violations don't fall under the qualified immunity exception.)

2. If they find any evidence of another crime, it is excluded from trial. (Fruit of the poisoned tree- the search became "warrantless" once they found the Polymer 80 kit and kept going)

I think you're trying to make the point that going along to get along is better than being involved in a 10-year lawsuit. I won't argue that. But a lot of times "give it to me voluntarily or I'll get a warrant" his code for I lack the evidence to get a warrant. You only know if you press push to test.

 

[Alexx1401]

Guys this is the net. Anyone can claim anything. Has the Feds passed a new rule that the 80% is now a firearm? Have the changed the law saying we can no longer make a gun for our own use? Have not seen that. So how many of these 80% were sold across the US? Anyone really believe they are going to send a person to every street address and threaten the person living there? They are going to be some damn busy guys.
Now if the Feds really did show up at this one home as claimed I would bet my next pay check the guy was doing something to try to get their attention. He had to be working really super hard to get it for them to show up.

 

[Alexx1401]

Now that we're talking about it, I'm scratching my head at how they even got the warrant to raid Polymer 80 to begin with unless they straight up lied to a judge.

Judge: What do you think the crime here is?

ATF: we think polymer 80 is illegally selling firearms via mail order.

Judge: Sounds serious. What's your probable cause?

ATF: They are selling these pieces of plastic that we have assured them in writing are not considered firearms. They're also selling other gun parts which are not firearms. We believe that when you combine these two items that are legally not firearms they magically become a firearm. We have no statute or court precedent to justify this opinion.

Judge: OK....

Either the ATF grossly misrepresented their case, or the judge blatantly ignored the entire foundation of our legal system to give a bro hug to some fellow federal employees.

Many black robes do not care what the "law says". How many black robes are all in on some elected official just closing down places of business because they want to? Or telling people they can't have people at their home because they said so? A LOT of black robes are fine with this. Yet anyone thinks it would be hard to find a black robe to give a warrant for this place? Really?

 

[powersbj]

Is it possible the person searched is banned from possessing firearms?

 

[Gunbuggy]

They cleared the red house in north Portland of people trespassing with a firearm and committing a crime with body armor, but I'm yet to hear of any charges along those lines. I'm also yet to hear about anybody getting charged with the Portland/MultCo ordinance of having loaded firearms in public without a carry permit. It's a double standard...

My brother lives in Portland on Albina which is where the red house is. He said it's even worse since the police came by Monday. He said they haven't been back, and now it's tripled it's amount of derelict scum. He said they're up all night and walking around his neighborhood. He said he is about half a block down from the house.

 

[JuglansRegia]

so what your saying is someone needs to buy and 80% kit and have it delivered to "the red house"?

 

[Gunbuggy]

so what your saying is someone needs to buy and 80% kit and have it delivered to "the red house"?

Let's order 250 of them there

 

[GrayGoose]

...Meanwhile, gun-runner Eric Holder still roams free.

 

[JohnLScharf]

Next you'll need a tax stamp for pillows and pipes. The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. If you keep your sidearm next to your pillow, then it is a firearm silencer. I've seen it where people take two different diameters of iron pipe and build a working 12ga shotgun out of it (I'll not say exactly how it's constructed lest someone here try it and get hurt).

 

[BrentN]

These videos will soon be pulled, especially all of the YouTube videos on firearms. All of em.

That would not surprise me. Although, I am not sure what would surprise me at this point. Might be looking back at 2020 as the good ol' days.
Could interstate sales of guns and ammo be banned? That would be a big blow. How about shutting down anything gun related on the net. Might this very forum be shut down? That would absolutely decimate the firearms community. If not shut down, certainly monitored to the nth degree. Ask yourself; would the incoming administration like to do these things? Will they be slowed down by lack of man power or money? I think not. Of course there is potential for big lawsuits- when has that ever slowed down an agenda? Our own money is used to fight against us in court.
I'd be happy to hear the perspective of some of the more liberal members of this forum-is the Biden admin just blowing a bunch of smoke?

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Does the gun say boo? Does it disappear? Liberal BS terminology

 

[GrayGoose]

Does the gun say boo? Does it disappear? Liberal BS terminology

Well it does spook liberal sheeple. Maybe unless Poly80 made a pink or rainbow-colored version, maybe that would be ok?

 

[Alexx1401]

Is it possible the person searched is banned from possessing firearms?

So far one guy claims they showed up and made threats. Now if he is prohibited? Maybe? Even then for one person? Again I have exstream doubt the federal boys even showed up as he claims. If they really did he had to be jumping through a lot of hoops to get them to notice him. There are too many millions of people for them to bother one guy unless he was really trying to get their attention.

 

[rurallife]

well, I guess we're all gonna get tax stamps like good boys and girls, then take the required classes. Then we'll agree to only have 5 rounds of ammunition in the home. Then agree to only have one weapon. Then of course we'll turn that last weapon in when they tell us we no longer need guns.

Right? We'll be so safe then.....

 

[rurallife]

He included a copy of the "property taken" form.

So far one guy claims they showed up and made threats. Now if he is prohibited? Maybe? Even then for one person? Again I have exstream doubt the federal boys even showed up as he claims. If they really did he had to be jumping through a lot of hoops to get them to notice him. There are too many millions of people for them to bother one guy unless he was really trying to get their attention.

 

[Alexx1401]

He included a copy of the "property taken" form.

You really think I could not make one of those? Really? Kids can print US currency that the only problem they have is getting hands on correct paper but this form is hard? People have to want to believe this story to not see the gaping holes in it.

 

[Gunbuggy]

Is there a chance our "pro 2a" president could have stopped this raid? Or at least commented on it being wrong? What's his stance on this? What's the NRA's stance on this? Wtf...