Police use list of 30 Carbine owners to find suspect

[Misterbill]

I think this is one of the VERY few cases EVER where a crime may have been solved by a gun registration scheme. I don't remember ever hearing about any other otherwise unsolved crime where registration actually helped.

Not that that justifies it. Actually the opposite. If it was useful, we would be hearing about these cases all the time.

 

[Brutus57]

I totally disagree

I fired a .30 cal M1 carbine at a friend's one time, ran a couple of mags through. Fun gun. I had a friend in college who used the auto M2 when he was in SEA. He like it. You can throw a a fair bunch of lead down range...just not very far nor fast. YMMV If given the choice I'd opt for a Garand but the M1 carbine is handy and lighter. I never heard about it "getting troops killed".

Brutus Out

 

[U201491]

I totally disagree

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...3oCoDw&usg=AFQjCNG9nurlWASbEDnjXMcvSvjOwSqftg

 

[pchewn]

I fired a .30 cal M1 carbine at a friend's one time, ran a couple of mags through..

Why on earth would you want to shoot at your friend's M1 carbine? Did you hit it?

 

[jbett98]

I am reading a new book called "Glock" "The rise of America's gun" by Paul M. Barrett.

It's a good read on how Gaston Glock invented his gun, and all of the behind the scenes history of the company.

The real troubling part was how Glock Inc was working with the Feds in 2003 in a pilot program to make a digital ballistic fingerprint of every gun made.
When they test fire the gun at the factory, they were digitally recording the spent shell markings. Page 225.

 

[U201491]

The road to tyranny...


High-Level US Government Officials Have Warned for 40 Years that Mass Surveillance Would Lead to Tyranny in America


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013...illance-would-lead-to-tyranny-in-america.html

 

[Mark W.]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...3oCoDw&usg=AFQjCNG9nurlWASbEDnjXMcvSvjOwSqftg

Penetration tests have proved that the myth that a carbine round couldn't go through Chinese uniforms and such nonsense is just that nonsense. I know a guy who was in the thick of it in Vietnam. He shot a sapper running at him in his shooting hole with his M-16 hitting the guy all 20 times. He then pulled out his 45 and shot the guy 6 times before the sapper stopped about 15 ft in front of the hole where the bag charge went off almost burying my friend in the hole.

So should I go around telling people the 5.56mm round is under powered and can't stop bad guys?

 

[nwbobber]

It seems to me in any state, not just Washington, it would be possible to get a warrant to go to the manufacturer, and from there track to the dealer, who has the paperwork on file, and if the original purchaser was in possession of the particular firearm, or knew who was in possession of it, they would have their suspect. This does not even utilize any info the State police may be keeping. My understanding (correct me if I am wrong)of the bg check is it is just that, and no specific firearm is included in the query. They have your name, but it would not help them find the owner of a blackhawk chambered in .30 carbine.

 

[U201491]

Gun records are only the tip of the iceberg in this new Marxist administrations plans.
The following excerpts should make your hair a little grayer and clarify the degree
things are being monitored and stored.
An eye opening article.

Quote:

Oath Keepers is pleased to direct our readers to a very interesting interview with James Jaeger at The Daily Bell. I have included here some excerpts, but there is much more in this surprising interview - topics range from Hollywood to Edward Snowden, from the NSA to the Constitution. Oath Keepers salutes both James Jaeger and Anthony Wile. Read them here:



The Daily Bell - James Jaeger on His Documentaries, the Danger of Hollywood Blockbusters and the Reality of Snowden

-

Just a few excerpts for teasers -





Daily Bell: What's going on? How have you been?



James Jaeger: I have been quite busy since last March working with Edwin Vieira and Oath Keepers on a new movie entitled "MOLON LABE - How the Second Amendment Guarantees America's Freedom." We have an incredible "cast" of experts in the can: Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, Alex Jones, G. Edward Griffin, Chuck Baldwin, Stewart Rhodes, Larry Pratt, David R. Gillie, Jack Rooney and Edwin Vieira, who wrote the book, The Sword and Sovereignty, which inspired the movie. The first rough-cut is done and the movie will be released hopefully on Labor Day or Constitution Day. You can watch a trailer with clips of the experts at MOLON LABE Trailer - YouTube.



Daily Bell: You've been tracking the Snowden affair. Give us your take.



James Jaeger: This exercise gives everyone the opportunity to really see who is who on the world stage. Americans (and the rest of the world) seem to be abhorred with the Empire's surveillance - all neatly "justified" by the War of Terror, yet their elected representatives in Congress and the executive (and the government's lapdogs in the mainstream media) continue to work for the military-industrial complex and the globalists' agenda. It's as if the Fourth Amendment didn't even exist...



Daily Bell: You've been tracking the Snowden affair. Give us your take.



James Jaeger: This exercise gives everyone the opportunity to really see who is who on the world stage. Americans (and the rest of the world) seem to be abhorred with the Empire's surveillance - all neatly "justified" by the War of Terror, yet their elected representatives in Congress and the executive (and the government's lapdogs in the mainstream media) continue to work for the military-industrial complex and the globalists' agenda. It's as if the Fourth Amendment didn't even exist.



Daily Bell: It's like a Hollywood movie, almost too good to be true. Are we too cynical?



James Jaeger: You can be sure more than one screenplay is being written right this second. In fact, I would even be one of the writers if someone were to engage me for at least Writer's Guild minimum. So no, you are certainly NOT being too cynical. And you know what, as much as I bubblegum and moan about Hollywood, I think Hollywood has the right attitude about the Snowden affair: he's a hero exposing one of the main rungs of the police state the Globalists are attempting to build.



But at this time any screenplay on the Snowden affair can obviously only be a work-in-progress because things are still developing. Like Robert Redford in "THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR," Snowden has probably researched every plot and will hopefully end the show with a twist none of the movie-challenged apologists of the Empire will have foreseen.

My continuing observation of the MSM, however, indicates that they have pretty much covered over Snowden with Zimmerman....



Daily Bell: The AP says its reporting has been chilled by surveillance. Any response?

James Jaeger: Well, figure it out. A 5 zettabyte site is 5.0 X 10 , 21st bytes of information and a 1 yottabyte site is 3 orders of magnitude (1,000 times) larger at 10 , 24th bytes. That's a 10 with 24 zeros after it. This "thing" - which is going operational in September - will be able to record all emails, phone conversations, TV, radio shows, YouTube videos, photographs, websites, Internet searches and even parking receipts, travel itineraries and bookstore purchases for every person on the planet Earth for the next 100 years.



Even still, an NSA spokesperson had the gall to state: "Many unfounded allegations have been made about the planned activities of the Utah Data Center and one of the biggest misconceptions about NSA is that we are unlawfully listening in on, or reading emails of, US citizens. This is simply not the case."



Well, that may 'not be the case' with the PRISM program, but come September 2013, all bets are off. The NSA will have the capacity of "listening in" so why wouldn't they? This places a chill over every citizen in not only America but the world. It should also chill all news reporters, pundits, filmmakers, writers, thinkers, philosophers, patent and copyright holders, strategists and communicators in every branch of the arts and sciences. Maybe TODAY you are like John Stossel - more concerned about the other "100 things government does" - but TOMORROW you may decide it's necessary to become the next Thomas Paine in order to arrest further destruction of the Declaration of Independence. BUT you're in the 5 zettabyte sys, so you chill and go back to eating your spaghetti and hot dogs. You're chilled because your rogue gov has mapped your social network and can send in a drone to wipe you and your kitchen table off the map any time it wants. Nice. And no one would even know about it because they could wipe you before the public was even aware you EXISTED! So when police state apologists like Cheney, Alexander, King, Woolsey, Hague and Clapper tell you that "we are only collecting metadata" - you should go into HIGH ALERT.



Metadata is what computers use to "talk" to each other - no humans even needed. It's part of what's called the "semantic web" and it's been in development for years. By connecting origination and termination points of all phone numbers, IP Addresses and MAC numbers, they can identify every device you own or use: your phone, your computer, your routers and other machines (as MAC means Machine Access Code).

A phone number takes very few bytes of storage because a phone number is only 10 digits long (xxx-xxx-xxxx). That's only 10 bytes of storage. Connect two citizens' phones and that's only 20 bytes. Connect all 100 family, friends and associates of a citizen and that's only about 1,000 bytes of storage (10 X 100 = 1,000). Now add in another 1,000 bytes for the addresses of their major nodes (the handful of people they call most) - and you need maybe 2,000 bytes to store, or "quarry" all this innocent METADATA. But let's be conservative; let's say we use 1 million bytes, one meg, of data for each and every citizen in the US, such being 230 million people. That's 230,000,000 X 1,000,000 = or 23 terabytes (2.3 X 10 , 14th bytes). Any film editor in Hollywood has 23 terabytes on his NLE computer system, whereas the Bluffdale data storage center will have between 10 , 21st and 10 , 24th bytes. That's 7 to 10 orders of magnitude more capacity, so they could easily allocate a meg per year to all 7 billion people on Earth for the next 100 years. A meg for all 7 billion people would only be 7 x 10 , 15 bytes per year and for 100 years it would only be 7 X 10 , 17th bytes. Recall, Bluffdale will store as much as 10 , 24th bytes, 7 orders of magnitude more than the mere 10 , 17th bytes needed for every human on Earth. Factor in the wash that less than half the human population doesn't have computers and the other half uses storage-intensive applications (one of the most intense at this time being 1080p video) and we can see that the Bluffdale site will also be able to easily handle that. So all porn will easily be storable for the next 100 years along with each and every user. AND, if the NSA really likes porn, it will even be able to store it in 1080p (for future "evaluations"). Once quantum computing comes online, as futurists expect, the Bluffdale site's storage capacity will be available on USB thumb drives.



But how does all this apply to the Bill of Rights, which states in the 4th Amendment:



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."



The key words are SEARCHES and SEIZURES and with these words, the NSA's assurance that they are not "unlawfully listening in " is made invalid. When the government "quarries records from the telecom providers," as the former NSA chief stated on national TV, it is, in essence, seizing the "papers and effects" of WE THE PEOPLE. It may only be seizing a copy of our "papers and effects" but the fact that that copy embodies intellectual property that has an automatic COPYright on it the moment it is put into tangible form as an email, phone recording, photograph, website or motion picture makes the act of "quarrying" information with the PRISM program or in the Bluffdale servers illegal not only under copyright law but constitutional law. The act of quarrying data is that act of seizing data, and data is the same as the "papers and effects" referred to in the Fourth....



Daily Bell: Do these sorts of investigations make us safer?



James Jaeger: Well, to answer that, let me put those statistics into perspective. According to the National Counter Terrorism Center and the GAO (Government Accounting Office), about 1,900 people are killed by international terrorism every year and about 70 of them are Americans. Concomitant with this, about 140 people are killed by peanut allergies each year and about 450,000 die from coronary heart disease. Even given this, our Lindsey Graham-infested Congress - with its deserved, 20% approval rating - sees fit to spend over $160 billion a year on the "war on terror" but only spends about $3 billion each year on the "war on heart disease." So each year 6,429 times more Americans die from heart disease than terrorism yet Congress spends 53 times more money to save 70 lives than it does to save 450,000 lives. NOW the government wants to make the 70 people killed by terrorism even MORE "secure" by constructing a $4 billion surveillance complex in Bluffdale, Utah that will have the ability to snoop on every man, woman and child on Earth.



It's obvious that the surveillance machinery being built is NOT for any so-called "war on terror." It's to dominate and control the peoples of the Earth by the globalist power elite - less than .001% of the population. THIS is what Edward Snowden means by the term, "turnkey tyranny."



- End excerpts from interview at The Daily Bell. Read the whole interview here:



The Daily Bell - James Jaeger on His Documentaries, the Danger of Hollywood Blockbusters and the Reality of Snowden


end Quote. Now go read the entire article.

 

[Jerry]

Yes, Washington has a firearms registration program for all FFL transfers. I went through a FFL for an on-line purchase of a handgun a couple of months ago. Besides the BATFE form, there was a Washington Dept of Licensing form that I had to complete. Name, address, make, model & firearms serial number, etc.

WA State Licensing: Firearms Online

 

[GunnyG]

30 carbine is the cartridge designation. Not necessarily what it is fired from.

Correct. There is a Ruger Blackhawk (just like any other SAA revolver), that is chambered in .30 Carbine:

Educational Zone #112 - Interesting Firearms - The Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine
Educational Zone #112 - Interesting Firearms - The Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine - Page 1

 

[U201491]

Correct. There is a Ruger Blackhawk (just like any other SAA revolver), that is chambered in .30 Carbine:

Educational Zone #112 - Interesting Firearms - The Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine
Educational Zone #112 - Interesting Firearms - The Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine - Page 1

Yes, and many interchangeable barrel single shots that do also.

 

[Salps]

I totally disagree

I totally disagree also...

 

[pokerace]

I think this is one of the VERY few cases EVER where a crime may have been solved by a gun registration scheme. I don't remember ever hearing about any other otherwise unsolved crime where registration actually helped.

Not that that justifies it. Actually the opposite. If it was useful, we would be hearing about these cases all the time.

I'll bet it's been done in Wa. more that once. You just don't hear about it...

 

[jbett98]

The I-5 killer Randall Woodfield was caught because he was using a vintage pistol taken from one of his murder victims (Darci Fix).
The pistol used an odd caliber and the lead detective reasoned that it being fairly rare and obselete, contacted all of the local gun stores and asked them to record the ID of anyone asking to purchase the ammo.
When Woodfield purchased some in Beaverton, it was the tip that ultimately brought him to justice.
He is suspected in the murder of 44 people.

 

[Mark W.]

Yes, and many interchangeable barrel single shots that do also.

Also the AMT Automag III and Taurus Raging 30 are both in 30 carbine

 

[pokerace]

Yes, Washington has a firearms registration program for all FFL transfers. I went through a FFL for an on-line purchase of a handgun a couple of months ago. Besides the BATFE form, there was a Washington Dept of Licensing form that I had to complete. Name, address, make, model & firearms serial number, etc.

WA State Licensing: Firearms Online

Has any one ever ask what law requires this.

 

[nwwoodsman]

So should I go around telling people the 5.56mm round is under powered and can't stop bad guys?

No. You could explain to them that while the 5.56 will work, there are better rounds that have been around a whole lot longer
American Rifleman - The M14 Enhanced Battle Rifle

 

[hermannr]

The killer had purchased a Ruger Blackhawk in 30M1 Carbine and handguns purchased through an ffl in WA are registered at the state level. That list gave them a name that matched a
name on the possible owners of the vehicle type. Outstanding police work.

WA paperwork is a "record of sale", it is not a "firearm registration" as such. it is the way the state makes sure they get their "pound of flesh" (tax) on the sale.

It was a lucky thing for the investigators that it was not a WWII 30 carbine rifle that had never been sold through an FFL.