Washington Petition wants to allow pot shop workers to carry guns

[No_Regerts]

You need to visit Mr Webster and read the definition. Has nothing to do with making a living or doing it for free. If it did how could we pay a GI that "Volunteered" to serve?

How about mutually consenting? In accordance with the 13th Amendment, I must consent to provide labor or services and my employer must consent to allow me to do so under their name.

 

[OldTengu]

Since the they are a 100% cash business I hope they have guns in there. Sitting ducks to a robbery. Though wouldn't be all too smart with the foot traffic in around the stores. People don't fiend for weed like heroin or other harder drugs. A stoner without weed is highly unlikely to knock over store to get more weed.

Since cannabis is still illegal federally, having a firearm inside a business where cash is exchanged for it is an atf/dea violation. The lack of legal ability to carry does tend to leave one feeling like a steak in a shark tank.

 

[OldTengu]

I'm just wondering how you answer the question on a 4473 now that you admit to being a user?

It also states that one would be disqualified as "an unlawful user". In oregon and washington its as legal as beer.

 

[Argonaut]

It also states that one would be disqualified as "an unlawful user". In oregon and washington its as legal as beer.

Not to the Fed...............

 

[OldTengu]

Not to the Fed...............

That's where it gets tricky. Especially considering the amount of people who use it for pain and even recreationally are much less likely to commit crimes of any sort in comparison to folks who are frequent users of federally allowed substances like alcohol and synthetic opioids.

 

[The Heretic]

The DEA just approved synthetic marijuana as medicine while the real thing remains illegal

 

[IronMonster]

When I was in Washinton I knew many regular pot users and a couple of growers. As a whole they were just normal people and you would have no idea they were any different than any other folk. Most made more money than I did, owned homes and drove nice cars. All of them were trustworthy and solid. On the other hand I know a handful of chronic drinkers. They are the ones who end up "somehow" in domestic disputes and felony records.

I have tried most drugs, I have not used any for 20+ years but I have enough experience to have experience. Pot is not a social or criminal problem, it's just not. It should be evident it's not a criminal problem as the states that made it legal have had a drop in opioid-related crime and no uptick in other areas. Folks who have lived under the "war on drugs" mentality and have been indoctrinated to believe weed is a killer but alcohol is ok are simply victims of the propaganda machine. Now I know I will not change anyone's mind but the truth is I would not worry much about being around pot users, the vast majority are well-adjusted adults. I am theoretically at least 100% ok with being around someone who owns a firearm and occasionally uses pot. In my mind, it is less of a problem than someone who owns a firearm and occasionally drinks alcohol. Users of alcohol are prone to irrational, out of character acts. Pot users not so much.

All that said. As far as I am concerned if you smoke pot you are prohibited from owning a firearm. The feds have said so unequivocally. It being legal in your state is not a defense against prosecution. If you want to smoke, fine. But understand it makes you a federally prohibited person when it comes to guns.

Straight from the ATF website

"Marijuana is listed in the Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule I controlled substance, and there are no exceptions in Federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medical purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by State law, Therefore, any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legalization authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition."

Do I agree with the law? That really has no bearing, it's the law

End of story.

So.... If you want to carry in a pot shop I think you should be able to, However you better not partake of the goods.

 

[The Heretic]

Agree.

There is no equivocating with the federal courts on this - the court and DEA and ATF decisions have been handed down - if you use pot, owning or buying guns is a non-no punishable by prison time.

That is why I do not have any CBD oil/etc. (I can't smoke - I have GRD/Barrett's Esophagus - and I would not smoke it anyway).

I am a Libertarian - I believe people have the right to ingest whatever they want into their bodies. I repeatedly strongly advocate for letting people do what they wish as long as they do not harm others. I well know what some drugs do to people - I have an ex who abuses prescription drugs (and probably gets them from illicit sources when she can't get a prescription) and I have seen what it has done to her health and life - but it is her life and not mine to manage.

So, the law is the law and if you get caught breaking it then don't expect any leniency from the courts due to your beliefs, and very little sympathy from me because you got caught breaking it.

 

[Alexx1401]

I can unequivocally say that if I had to choose between a stoner with a gun and a drunk with a gun I'd pick the stoner.

Ditto. Have not used pot in decades but when I did I never saw it lead to anything other than laziness and a great appetite. Add alcohol to young men and it seldom did not at least come close to a fight. Now we are talking pot here, not pot or fake pot with god only knows what added to it. That is a whole different story. As for the workers you could not give me a job there if I could not carry. The problem is not the customers it's the cash. Since it's a totally cash businesses and everyone knows that, that is what will attract the violent drug addicts looking for cash. Now I have not bothered to read the law. As in what's the worst if you get caught carrying there while working? If it was a real conviction I just would not think of taking the job. If it was a fine at best and lose the job? Well if I had to work there I would of course carry. Seems like a stupid law to me. If an employee of a bar can be armed while the customers can't, why not the employees of the pot retailer?

 

[wired]

They are cash only businesses that keep a lot of it in the shop. Of course the employees should be allowed to carry.

 

[Alexx1401]

When I was in Washinton I knew many regular pot users and a couple of growers. As a whole they were just normal people and you would have no idea they were any different than any other folk.

All that said. As far as I am concerned if you smoke pot you are prohibited from owning a firearm. The feds have said so unequivocally. It being legal in your state is not a defense against prosecution. If you want to smoke, fine. But understand it makes you a federally prohibited person when it comes to guns.



Do I agree with the law? That really has no bearing, it's the law

End of story.

So.... If you want to carry in a pot shop I think you should be able to, However you better not partake of the goods.

Another "problem" this law (legal pot) has caused is employment. Where I work you have to pass a drug screen. Pot shows up no job. People can cry all they want they are warned ahead of time. Commercial drivers are getting a good living here now considering how much training is involved. Co worker is going this route. He is finding the reason they are offering him such a sweet deal is so many have eliminated themselves from the running by insisting on smoking the stuff. Legal or not it means no CDL for you. So that makes the jobs pay better. I have one kid like this. He makes very little money because he wants to get high now and then. bubblegumes every year now when his Mom does his taxes and finds he has to pay the Obamacare fines. I tell him every time. I could get you a job tomorrow making twice what you make now with full health insurance if you were willing to give up the pot. It's his choice so he makes it.

 

[notazombie]

Background checks work so well anyway

Well, the feds draw the line somewhere. From age 10-22 one of my best friends was a shady little sociopath. He drank a lot and did plenty of drugs of most types. Also committed several felonys although I don't know of any arrests. We finally had our final falling out and haven't spoken in over 20 years but still have friends in common. Where is he now? FBI agent via PPD and WCSO. His name shows up in some of the Bundy/Malheur documents. I've also heard accounts from mutual friends of some unstable behavior. So either the feds are very forgiving of past behavior or background checks don't work. In his case I'm thinking it's both.
"Substances", for me, is a complicated subject. I've never done any illegal drugs. Ever. But I've been around enough to have a pretty clear understanding. I do drink on occasion and have been prescribed medications a couple times in the past.
I don't necessarily buy the argument that potheads are all docile and mellow, however that may be true for the majority of the recreational crowd. There are plenty of mentally unstable people out there who look at marijuana as a "safer, natural" alternative to any other mental health medicine. The same holds true with alcohol though. I know some of both and they shouldn't be around guns but to me that's not a substance problem or a gun problem -- It's a crazy problem.
The libertarian side of me feels that we should all have the freedom to possess or ingest whatever we want as long as we don't hurt anyone else but the logical side of me knows that most people can't handle the freedom to self destruct. So I'll just say this; In my experience as an observant human, guns and drugs aren't a good mix.

 

[The Heretic]

The libertarian side of me feels that we should all have the freedom to possess or ingest whatever we want as long as we don't hurt anyone else but the logical side of me knows that most people can't handle the freedom to self destruct. So I'll just say this; In my experience as an observant human, guns and drugs aren't a good mix.

People do drugs whether it is against the law or not, just like criminals get guns via black market, anyone can get drugs almost anywhere, and the laws do not stop them from ingesting them.

Also, my ex was problematic before she started using drugs, which is why she is my ex. Her father was an NRA member, staunchly conservative/etc. - he was also a child molester and a real mean drunk who had no problem running people off the road or beating up on women. Her brother is also a child molester - serving 50 years in prison for molesting his own preteen daughter. That family was screwed up before I ever encountered them (just wish I knew it beforehand).

Bad and mentally ill people are generally that way before they take drugs.

OTOH - I had to take a drug test to get my current job. I am a Code Monkey (I write software) and no person's life depends on how I do my job, so there is no real reason that I should need to take a drug test, plus good THC-free CBD does not make you high/etc., it relieves pain and other issues without the side effects of opioids (which I have a prescription for but rarely take).

 

[Argonaut]

We are encouraging a further rift in our society. One between drug users that voluntarily reduce there own IQ and straight non drug users. The argument between alcohol and drugs doesn't hold water either. I am not a tea totaler , a 6 pack of beer lasts 2 weeks or more in my refrigerator. Most alcohol users don't regularly drink to get drunk. That is the only goal of a pot smoker, he is not finished until he is high. The just as bad or worse argument does not work either. My family doesn't carry the addictive personality gene but some of my step kids do. They have all quit drinking (after 2 decades) and are recovering the pieces of there life. My wife and I have never done illegal substances, I haven't been drunk in 50 years. It is a culture that is foreign and unnecessary to us. We wouldn't have if it was legal but legality opens the door to many in the society that would otherwise be unaffected. My distant English cousin lost a young son to Marijuana, he was doing fine until about 16 when he started using. At 19 he took his own life under a Marijuana induced episode. His mother deliberately took her own life 2 years later because she couldn't deal with the loss and blamed herself. These things that we legalize have lasting effects on individuals and society. We have proven it over and over in the last thousands of years. Laudanum and opium use was common after the civil war is some groups. We identified it as a problem and made it both socially unacceptable and illegal. These idiot states that have legalized these drugs talk about the tax revenues but they seldom correlate them to the huge social expense increases that follow it. The homeless population is on the increase even with the quantity of recourses we have given to solve it. We had a large homeless camp in Boise a couple of years ago in an urban industrial alley. Finally even the liberal (communist) mayor got enough and sent a team in to evict and clean the place up. In the end, he had to admit that every area, tent and person they delt with was using some sort of illegal drugs. Nearly all had Marijuana but most also had meth and heroin. Some people are strong and can be occasional users but too many can not. I our society continues down this road of leagalization and eliminating the social stigma applied to drug users we will Weaken our group as a whole and creative a permanent sub class unable to care for their own needs.

 

[wired]

Bunch of stupid in these posts.

 

[Mark W.]

Not to get on one side or the other of this debate

But it has always amazed me how people with self proclaimed NO EXPERIENCE with pot seam to know everything about it. From how a person reacts to it to the idea that all the employees in a store selling it are stoned and everything inbetween.

 

[Alexx1401]

Not to get on one side or the other of this debate

But it has always amazed me how people with self proclaimed NO EXPERIENCE with pot seam to know everything about it. From how a person reacts to it to the idea that all the employees in a store selling it are stoned and everything inbetween.

Kind of like people who write books on raising kids who never had kids?

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

lol

 

[Argonaut]

I have managed and employed thousands of people in my life........think I have a pretty good idea the effects of both alcohol and drugs have on humans. It never is positive and most times very destructive.

 

[wired]

I have managed and employed thousands of people in my life........think I have a pretty good idea the effects of both alcohol and drugs have on humans. It never is positive and most times very destructive.

Then you managed MANY people who used alcohol and recreational pot that had no issues with them that you didnt know about because they were able to do it without it affecting their lives. Its just the problem children you knew about..