Personal Defense Weapons (PDW) and Packable Firearms

[Member 34319]

Forgot about the PS90. I think this guy has more appeal to me though. About the same price too.

 

[Member 34319]

All of the small pdws don't make much sense to me in a semi auto platform. I can run a pistol just as fast, and have more concealability with less weight. Now, if we could have the un-neutered versions, I might sing a different tune.

Ya, kind of my reasons for the thread. I'm not sold on anything. I don't operate either so I'm kind of lost in all these things. I think they are cool though. Just not sure if needing one is viable.

Makes SHTF a lot more fun though if you had one.

Lol, I enjoy our era. We get to have tiny guns and big guns and everything in between. That and the question is not why? But rather why not?

 

[No_Regerts]

Ya, kind of my reasons for the thread. I'm not sold on anything. I don't operate either so I'm kind of lost in all these things. I think they are cool though. Just not sure if needing one is viable.

Makes SHTF a lot more fun though if you had one.

Lol, I enjoy our era. We get to have tiny guns and big guns and everything in between. That and the question is not why? But rather why not?

My "why not" is I already have pistols chambered in underpowered cartridges. If it needs more killing, I'm not going to move up to a gun shooting the same ammo with a couple more inches of barrel.

Maneuverability using AR and AK "pistols" is a pro of those guns. I prefer the controlability and accuracy of an SBr/rifle instead. SBRs are great for getting in and out of vehicles and clearing buildings. You have to ask yourself how much of that you do in order to really justify the hassle of the NFA stuff.

The short shotguns are cool, but once again, if I'm doing anything outside, I want a full grown gun.

 

[The Heretic]

Forgot about the PS90. I think this guy has more appeal to me though. About the same price too.

View attachment 546949

PS90 == 50 rounds

Five Seven mag holds 20, 30 if you get a CMMG extension, both of which stick downwards.

An AR 57 pistol would be better as it uses the P90 mags instead.

If I am going to be carrying around an AR, it will be in 5.56 or 7.62x39

I am thinking of having an integral suppressor setup on my PS90 - or at least one that is permanently attached to a short barrel - such that the OAL length is the same as it is now, 26"

 

[The Heretic]

Or just use this:

View attachment 546946

And you can pack this:

View attachment 546947

Some of us can't carry that much weight (if you include everything else you put in a GHB/BOB) very far - maybe a mile at most for me. So size and weight are critical.

 

[No_Regerts]

Some of us can't carry that much weight (if you include everything else you put in a GHB/BOB) very far - maybe a mile at most for me. So size and weight are critical.

Its good that you know that now vs later!

 

[The Heretic]

My "why not" is I already have pistols chambered in underpowered cartridges. If it needs more killing, I'm not going to move up to a gun shooting the same ammo with a couple more inches of barrel.

Maneuverability using AR and AK "pistols" is a pro of those guns. I prefer the controlability and accuracy of an SBr/rifle instead. SBRs are great for getting in and out of vehicles and clearing buildings. You have to ask yourself how much of that you do in order to really justify the hassle of the NFA stuff.

The short shotguns are cool, but once again, if I'm doing anything outside, I want a full grown gun.

Everybody's situation is different.

I only have two PCCs - a .44 mag lever action and the PS90. The latter is a self-defense gun, the former just a fun gun to match my 329PD.

I originally got a PS90 and Five Seven for a family member who has health issues that make weight and recoil an issue in both carrying and control. Then after shooting them for a while it occurred to me that I have a similar issue with weight and ammo capacity due to my health also (which is not getting any better and I am not getting any younger).

The PS90 and/or the Five Seven are niche guns for rear area logistics/support personnel. For a SHTF scenario they would be good for when people are outside doing chores and other work that doesn't require someone to be perfectly armed with an 'assault rifle' or 'battle rifle', but they still need a defensive weapon to delay surprise attackers while they can get to cover where their primary weapons are (AR, AK, battle rifles, etc.).

My Shockwave is a combination truck gun, home defense gun and something I can take outside now when I go to check on my property without carry a larger heavier gun that is more obvious.

So each gun in a SHTF battery can and will serve separate purposes with some overlap.

Besides, it gives me an excuse to buy more guns.

 

[Geardo]

Lots to unpack here...

First off, a PDW, To ME, is something More than a 9mm or .40 sw. Maybe something like 5.7, but that is really only good for its armor piercing capability. If you are just going to run a 9mm, run a Roland special. If you can't shoot a comped 9mm fast and accurate enough then just give up.

Now, A useful PDW is an intermediate catridge such as 300 blk or 5.56, because pistol bullets suck!.

5.56 in short barrels sucks, so that leaves 300 blk or similar. Maybe .458 socom?

My personal favorite, is something like hot rodded 10mm or 9x25 Dillon in an 8" - 10" barrel. Maybe 10mm magnum?

A gun in any of these calibers with a folding stock, RDS, Stubby vert grip and a few extra mags would be some solid firepower inside 100 yards WITH THE RIGHT AMMO.

Now, what is the purpose?

I have a 10.5" 300 blk. I hate it. I don't have enough ammo for it, or train with it enough. BUT, it goes with me on trips, woods hikes, etc. A SMALLISH gun is just way easier to discretly carry out to the car, or keep in the back seat, Deploy out of a vehicle, or carry in the woods.

So "PDW"s are just Fricken practical and useful. A 12.5" AR with a PDW style stock or folding stock (like a SBR of brownel's new ar180) might be useful too. A 8" 10mm with folding stock would be great if someone made it.

 

[The Heretic]

Its good that you know that now vs later!

I have come to realize this more and more over the past couple of decades.

This past year was much more of an eye opener after several trips to the hospital and many cardiologist appointments.

 

[41mag]

I think they are cool though. Just not sure if needing one is viable.

....I'm at the point where 'viable' is not what makes the choice....

 

[Member 34319]

....I'm at the point where 'viable' is not what makes the choice....

Well, do share.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I have a 9mm carbine, and a basic 16" AR carbine. I also have a 9mm handgun (Ruger P85) with 5 magazines... for me though... the AR is a nice mix of lightweight, easy to tote, parts available everywhere, decent ballistics, and its chamber is the .223 Wylde which allows me to use both 5.56 and .223 Rem ammo without much worry...
I DO have a hankering for a retro style XM177 A1 or A2 11.5" PDW but ideally it would be chambered in .300blk or .277 Wolverine, and be a pistol tube setup with a cheek rest as opposed to a SBR setup. On the other hand, a bullpup AR pistol maybe a good idea, if one can figure a decent way to not have a shoulder stock... but a 16" barreled bullpup maybe good design if one can keeP OAL to 27" for ATF reasons (I think shorter OAL makes it SBR/AOW or Firearm if not rifle?)

 

[The Heretic]

but a 16" barreled bullpup maybe good design if one can keeP OAL to 27" for ATF reasons (I think shorter OAL makes it SBR/AOW or Firearm if not rifle?)

Tavor OAL 26.1"
Steyr Aug OAL 28"

Yes, there are bullpups that are shorter than 26" and therefore are SBRs under the NFA.

 

[41mag]

Well, do share.

I read your comment as 'viable' as a working firearm.
My 'viable' is what personally works in my own 'GeezerWorld'.

There's bits & pieces of that important aspect mentioned and present in many posts here. Assembling them into a 'viable' package means a lot of additional factors beyond mere functionality of any particular firearm.

Many 'viable' firearms work for others that simply are not best for my own scenario.

You used a good term. For me, the pistol versions of ARs simply isn't 'viable' as my use of them is wretched. etc.

 

[surevaliance]

Most of my guns are packable:
- 6920
- RDB-17
- SUB-2000 gen. 2, 9mm
- 10/22 Takedown
- BLR Lightweight Takedown .308Win

 

[P7M13]

When I'm hunting, it's just a day pack, ~30 L in size.
For multi day trips, either a 70 or 85 L pack.
Ten years ago, it was 40 S&W. Last 3 years, 10mm Compact. Will now be a 10mm 1911.
With Pistol, ammo, and all my gear, my multiday pack is ~45 lbs. Considering my treks are ~20 miles and 0-5000' elevation gain, I don't want to be lugging anything more than a 1911 and three magazines.

 

[Seraphim38]

Both of these fold up easily into a backpack. Black one is 9mm and the FDE is 45ACP. Cool thing about them is that I can carry extra mags and mate the 9mm Vector up with a Glock 19 or Glock 17, and the FDE Vector travels with a Glock 21 since it shares mags with it also. It is great to have the primary and secondary use the same mags.



The 45ACP's gotten enough use that the safety isn't as crisp as it used to be and I don't want the safety to disengage when in a backpack, so the CZ Scorpion gets carried more often.

With all that said, I do have a 300 Blackout build in process for running suppressed and while it will be relatively compact it won't be a folder., and thus I don't plan for it to be backpack-capable.

I feel comfortable with the 45ACP's stopping power and don't feel the need for 300 Blackout supers, in a civilian (off-duty/off-deployment) situation.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[ACO]

After lugging a 20"A2 around a lot in my early days, I found the desire to lighten and tune my carry gun now. I've built a M92 SBR Krink clone that I love more than any other gun in my collection I think. Size, caliber, weight, simplicity. However, I also built up a 7.5 AR pistol tht is insanely lightweight. It's currently in 5.56, but I'm debating a switch to .300blk. (Not sure i like the price of that round though)

I have a scorpion I've micro'd, and I love the platform. I love the size, cost to shoot, accuracy, and customizableness of it. I'd like it more if I could have it in .45 or .44mag.

With the current weather situation, I have been thinking about holing up at a friend's house in Tacoma. If I do go, Ive been thinking what I will pack with me. As I'll have to hike with full kit (clothes and food for the week), size and weight comes to mind again... pack a pistol with extra mags, or bother to take a bigger PDW. To be honest, the hassle of a PDW feels unnecessary, but I may do it for fun.

They say a pistol is for where you can't carry a rifle and to get you back to your rifle. I feel a PDW is for when you can't fit a rifle in your pack or vehicle. I don't think the caliber matters so much as the accuracy, round count, weight, and ease of deployment. Which is why there is so much variation in offerings and opinions. Everybody's pack is set up different. Everyone has different vehicle and storage options. Many don't want to invest in new calibers. I fully get all those factors. Go with what works for you.

 

[The Heretic]

My general practice is that for local trips (e.g., daily commute), a pistol is enough (maybe), but outside of my local area, I would have both a pistol and a PDW - e.g., my Five Seven and my PS90.