People Kill People. But the Bullets Seem to Matter.

[tac]

I'm a moron?

Go find out yourself, pal.

 

[The Heretic]

Can one of you guys who's been reloading longer then my 50 years explain to me how a .38 is a medium sized caliber and a .357 is a large sized caliber.

Should I go separate my dozens of boxes of slugs which for decades I have been using in both my .38 Spl and .357 Mag loads?

Always trying to learn. To bad the teachers in this study are MORONS

They were just being a bit ambiguous and not using the correct terminology for the cartridges.

Even the "experts" who should know better often use the wrong terminology; e.g., "bullets" instead of cartridges (or ammo).

 

[awshoot]

Lol, .357 and 9mm are the same size.

Can one of you guys who's been reloading longer then my 50 years explain to me how a .38 is a medium sized caliber and a .357 is a large sized caliber.

Yep -- this study demonstrates a fundamental disconnect in the understanding of caliber and kinetic energy.

I've often though that one unintended consequence of mag-size restrictions is that people would just start choosing larger calibers which typically (but not always) impart more energy.

 

[Witsendidk]

People Kill People. But the Bullets Seem to Matter.


View attachment 565153

Oh! Would you look at that. 9mm is by far THE DEADLIEST caliber. /s

 

[titsonritz]

Now hold on, there, but I always thought that the penetration depended on how hard you pulled that trigger!

That is certainly the case with a Nagant M1895 Revolver.

 

[surevaliance]

{Searching online where I can find a pistol chambered in 'other'}

7.62x25 Tok.?

 

[bbbass]

Now hold on, there, but I always thought that the penetration depended on how hard you pulled that trigger!

Now come on... everybody knows that a "throwing motion" imparts more velocity and therefore energy than yanking the trigger (which is pulling backwards away from the intended target)!!

I got the humor here...and if one will pardon a slight thread drift...

Once while shooting some clay birds with a borrowed shotgun...
If how hard you pulled the trigger determined just how hard the projectile hit the target...
Then that clay bird I was "shooting" at would have totally disappeared...
And my shot would indeed have been : "The one heard around the world"....

I was not aware that his shotgun had a "automatic" safety....
Andy

I used to own a Charles Daly Over/Under that had that feature... when the barrels were moved up to close/lock the breech, the safety automatically moved to the "safe" position. It caused me some dismay a time or two after using other shotguns when I'd forget while on the 16yd line. I think it's a good feature for a bird gun tho.

 

[whitney]

Can one of you guys who's been reloading longer then my 50 years explain to me how a .38 is a medium sized caliber and a .357 is a large sized caliber.

Should I go separate my dozens of boxes of slugs which for decades I have been using in both my .38 Spl and .357 Mag loads?

Always trying to learn. To bad the teachers in this study are MORONS

No worries Mark, you are good to go.
The problem lies with the source and the science.
First the science. Mass x Velocity = Force, so says Newton.

Second the source. Margot Sanger-Katz
https://www.google.com/search?q=MARGOT SANGER-KATZ&cad=h

New York Times health policy journalist. That should tell you all you need right there, I never did read anything in the NYT that validated any scientific law.

So....... we have a so called health policy "expert" writing for the NYT creating a list of "dangerous" or perhaps "leathality scale" of firearms they likely know nothing about. Giving her the benefit of doubt as she might know something of the laws of Newton as applied here. Not holding my breath though.


~Whitney

Also there is this : The study Association of Firearm Caliber With Death From Gunshot in Criminal Assaults
The comments are at least entertaining.

And......

Announcing JAMA Network Open—A New Journal From The JAMA Network

JAMA Network Open will be a general medical journal that includes content from many disciplines, featuring scientific, medical, and health content in more than 40 subject areas (Box). About 25% of JAMA Network Openarticles will be accompanied by open access Invited Commentaries because clinicians and investigators have told us that they value the insights of opinion pieces, and open access online commenting will be available for all articles. Authors will continue to be able to submit manuscripts to JAMA and 1 of the specialty journals and request the option for automatic transfer to another journal if the initial journal does not accept the manuscript, including JAMA Network Open. The addition of JAMA Network Open will enhance JAMA and the 11 specialty journals and broaden The JAMA Network.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Interesting that .356" is the cut off for large caliber

Because .38 is microscopic.

 

[titsonritz]

Because .38 is microscopic.

Oh, I don't know, I've always thought a pair of 38's was just about perfect.

 

[Heyjoe]

I wonder if the increase in fatalities between 9mm and .357/45acp can be attributed to the idea that 45 and 357 are more often carried by old timers who might be more proficient with their pistols?

How about the increase in total shootings with 9mm? How many of those could be attributed to drive by, spray and pray type shootings by gang bangers?

 

[DB is Here]

I'm a moron?

Go find out yourself, pal.

He was talking about the ones that did the study...Now back to your regular programming.

 

[Kruel J]

Where's that dude that kept telling me .22lr kills more people than any other caliber?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Where's that dude that kept telling me .22lr kills more people than any other caliber?

"Criminal shootings in Boston"

As for wheres the dude who keeps asserting that .22lr kills more people....... I dunno. I think a .pdf document titled ""harmless" .22 Caliber Rabbit rabbit guns kill more people than any other type of gun "on this page is the source of the claim Documents:

 

[JuglansRegia]

Its ironic that my latest order from Midway was delivered today, part of that was a box of Barnes Tac-XPD in .357 Magnum, they claim a 125gr HP at 1,200fps out of a 2" barrel. This will be my new snubby carry load.

 

[Pete F]

I like his conclusion that we should all be carrying Saturdaynight Specials, so no one ends up dead from a gunshot. Modern guns are the problem.

 

[awshoot]

... Also there is this : The study Association of Firearm Caliber With Death From Gunshot in Criminal Assaults
The comments are at least entertaining. ...

Haven't got to the comments yet but I was trying extract some useful information. According to Table 4 of the supplement, if I am reading this right (It starts "Gunshot Victim and Survivor Characteristics ... seems redundant so maybe they mean something else):

• S: 45.6% of survivors had multiple wounds (53.4% of survivors had one wound)
• M: 49.0% of survivors had multiple wounds (51.0% of survivors had one wound)
• L: 52.8% of survivors had multiple wounds (47.2% of survivors had one wound)

This still doesn't provide information on the "one shot" effectiveness between the various defined categories. The paper does say "A separate calculation found that the number of shots fired was statistically unrelated to caliber for both fatal and nonfatal cases (eTable 3 in the Supplement)" but "shots fired" includes all the misses at the referenced table doesn't provide any info.

 

[Goosebrown]

People Kill People. But the Bullets Seem to Matter.


View attachment 565153

This must be wrong. There's no 233/5.56 and we know that the AK15 is the most used murder weapon in the world.

 

[Witsendidk]

"Bullets are killing people and they need to be stopped!!!"

 

[tac]

He was talking about the ones that did the study...Now back to your regular programming.

'kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.