Guy shoots through door at people attempting to break in.

[RVTECH]

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[L84Cabo]

It's a good example for discussion and learning...

Does your need/desire to save your own hide entitle you to blindly shoot and mag dump 13 rounds...HIGH...into your neighbors apartment?

I can appreciate the crap sandwich he was dealt. But if I live across the way from him, my answer is HELL NO! He's lucky he didn't kill EVERYONE in the unit across from him.

 

[Yarome]

Does your need/desire to save your own hide entitle you to blindly shoot and mag dump 13 rounds...HIGH...into your neighbors apartment?

I can appreciate the crap sandwich he was dealt. But if I live across the way from him, my answer is HELL NO! He's lucky he didn't kill EVERYONE in the unit across from him.

I dunno. His shots hit the opposite side at right about center mass and the building appears to be of poured concrete construction. I don't know of many pistol calibers that are going to through and through a steel sheeted door and at the very minimum... 8 inches of concrete.

I would say that a full mag dump probably wasn't necessary, though. One or two shots likely would have had the same effect to run them off and would have left him with enough rounds in his firearm to immediately respond to any ongoing threat without having to reload. In his mindset at the time and adrenaline running hot... I wouldn't consider it "completely" excessive, but when a situation is developing rapidly... ya really don't wanna get caught in the middle of a reload.

Based on the trajectory, he was obviously off to the side of the door... which was good.

We are looking at the scene for the very first time and making a backstop judgement from an "on the fly" perspective, but there is nothing saying that he had not played out that scenario before and his shooting position and backstop was not pre-planned.

I know I woulda. Just like I've been through my entire home designating shooting positions with predetermined safe lanes of fire and adequate backstops from all angles of my home. Doesn't everyone?

To me... the questions would be... did he even need to shoot in the first place? How about with the first kick, "I'm home and have a firearm aimed at your chest. Run!"(?) Not that he didn't have the right to shoot, but... IMHO... it was still optional.

 

[Tony617]

What a lunatic that the guy shot through a closed door. I would wait until they kick the door in and the shoot until the threat was subdued.

 

[Knobgoblin]

He was trying to play video games.
I mean, come on.

 

[mckenzied]

He saw on his camera they had guns in hand. Waiting for that door to open makes it more likely him and his brother would get shot. He is very lucky no one was home.

Curious if he knows his neighbors and new they would be gone/at work during the day or watched the camera enough to know no one was answering.

 

[ma96782]

Maybe, he could have.....just open the door a bit and rolled a frag out?

Nah.

Frags are expensive. Rrrrright....since there is also that Federal Tax.

Aloha, Mark

 

[mckenzied]

Maybe, he could have.....just open the door a bit and rolled a frag out?

Nah.

Frags are expensive. Rrrrright....since there is also that Federal Tax.

Aloha, Mark

 

[wjv]

I'm impressed by the door stop that held the door secure under some extreme kicking. Most front doors without that added level of protection, would fly open after the first or second kick.

Looks like all his bullets hit the heavy concrete wall.

 

[mckenzied]

No kidding. Especially surprising to see that level of security from an apartment complex door.

 

[zackdamundo]

Easy for me to say just watching the video and picking it apart, not having been in the situation.

But

I think mistake #1 was telling the bad guy through a Ring doorbell "nobody is home, come back another day." Bingo. A much better response is something like "we're both here working and we can't let you in right now, have the main office call and schedule something."

 

[Catfishmoon]

I have no problem with him shooting through a closed door when he is watching security cameras that show two armed assailants on the other side trying to bridge the entry. In that situation he knew where they were standing and they were unaware of where he was, that was the time to shoot at the bad guys. However, I would not have emptied my magazine unless I had others on my body.
I also have no problem with him firing his firearm and the backstop is another apartment about 15' away. His bullets have to travel thru two walls before they enter that apt. What is he supposed to do? Not shoot at people trying to kill him because there is a small chance the adjacent apt is occupied and a round he fires could randomly hit someone.
It would have been questionable to allow them to open his door and make himself an easier target prior to shooting. He would have had an easier shot at them, with the tradeoff being they have an easier shot at him... With the door closed they did not have a shot at him.

 

[Yarome]

I have no problem with him shooting through a closed door when he is watching security cameras that show two armed assailants on the other side trying to bridge the entry. In that situation he knew where they were standing and they were unaware of where he was, that was the time to shoot at the bad guys. However, I would not have emptied my magazine unless I had others on my body.
I also have no problem with him firing his firearm and the backstop is another apartment about 15' away. His bullets have to travel thru two walls before they enter that apt. What is he supposed to do? Not shoot at people trying to kill him because there is a small chance the adjacent apt is occupied and a round he fires could randomly hit someone.
It would have been questionable to allow them to open his door and make himself an easier target prior to shooting. He would have had an easier shot at them, with the tradeoff being they have an easier shot at him... With the door closed they did not have a shot at him.

Agreed. There is also the fact that there was nothing stopping the guys on the other side from firing at/through the door either. Possibly in an attempt to compromise the door lock(?) With the number of kicks they appeared highly motivated to enter the apt and there was no guarantee it would continue to hold. Maintaining any advantage in a gun fight is always a good idea.

 

[Nosferatu]

This is why a S&W 629 is best for home defense.

Here lies Lester Moore
4 slugs from a 44
Shot from through the door
No Less, no More

 

[Tony617]

I have no problem with him shooting through a closed door when he is watching security cameras that show two armed assailants on the other side trying to bridge the entry. In that situation he knew where they were standing and they were unaware of where he was, that was the time to shoot at the bad guys. However, I would not have emptied my magazine unless I had others on my body.
I also have no problem with him firing his firearm and the backstop is another apartment about 15' away. His bullets have to travel thru two walls before they enter that apt. What is he supposed to do? Not shoot at people trying to kill him because there is a small chance the adjacent apt is occupied and a round he fires could randomly hit someone.
It would have been questionable to allow them to open his door and make himself an easier target prior to shooting. He would have had an easier shot at them, with the tradeoff being they have an easier shot at him... With the door closed they did not have a shot at him.

I do have a problem with him shooting with a door shut. I would like to see how many rounds made it though the other apartment and see if they were intact how far they went. Yes the apartment was empty but in other similar situations the apartment may be occupied and you are responsible for every round shot. I live in Washington so I know better than to shoot though a closed door and also if the suspect is fleeing I do not shoot them in the back either.

 

[Yarome]

I do have a problem with him shooting with a door shut. I would like to see how many rounds made it though the other apartment and see if they were intact how far they went. Yes the apartment was empty but in other similar situations the apartment may be occupied and you are responsible for every round shot. I live in Washington so I know better than to shoot though a closed door and also if the suspect is fleeing I do not shoot them in the back either.

All hitting the exterior wall of a building code minimum of 8" of poured concrete.... from a handgun... already passing through... at minimum... 2 metal shells of the door? Whatchawanna bet there was "zero" penetration into the adjacent apartment?

I don't know if he had preplanned his shooting lane angle and backstop, but it certainly appears more than adequate.

As far as a back shot. It depends. Running in the opposite direction can just as easily be toward cover and return fire may be likely. I'm not suggesting anything, but foiling a bad guy with a gun's intent to do you harm is one thing. You likely weren't the first person they pulled a firearm on, and likely giving them a free pass simply leaves them free to go do it to someone else.

"Food for thought".

 

[Catfishmoon]

I do have a problem with him shooting with a door shut. I would like to see how many rounds made it though the other apartment and see if they were intact how far they went. Yes the apartment was empty but in other similar situations the apartment may be occupied and you are responsible for every round shot. I live in Washington so I know better than to shoot though a closed door and also if the suspect is fleeing I do not shoot them in the back either.

Well, the local police and prosecutors have not charged him to my knowledge..
If were being attacked by someone with a firearm in their hand, I would not delay firing my handgun at the assailants because there is a building behind them that may or may not have people inside...
Priorities happen and at the top of the list is to stop someone with a firearm who is doing their utmost to get to you.

 

[Catfishmoon]

It would be interesting to hear the comments of law enforcement, self-defense instructors or an attorney versed in firearm laws on how they would have advised the person in the apartment being broken into. I imagine the advice would differ from simply do nothing and call the police to at what exact moment he should have fired in self-defense...
The person could have waited until the door was breached prior to firing, in which case he would have made himself a much easier target. Also, any shot he fired in self-defense at that instance would have had a higher chance of entering a neighboring apt than compared to when he shot.

 

[Yarome]

It would be interesting to hear the comments of law enforcement, self-defense instructors or an attorney versed in firearm laws on how they would have advised the person in the apartment being broken into. I imagine the advice would differ from simply do nothing and call the police to at what exact moment he should have fired in self-defense...
The person could have waited until the door was breached prior to firing, in which case he would have made himself a much easier target. Also, any shot he fired in self-defense at that instance would have had a higher chance of entering a neighboring apt than compared to when he shot.

Consider... if your bullets can pass through your door... so can the bullets from a guy with a gun on the other side. Attempting to breech your door... Imminent threat exists.
Does it make any difference if it was through your front door... vs... someone with a firearm inside your home, advancing on you, and you shooting through your bathroom door(?)

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I don't think I would have done the same.

However....
We ain't talking about me...and what I did or would do.

At the end of the day...what he did worked for him...and didn't harm others who weren't a threat...so that is a win.
Andy