Oregon Ballot Measure 114 New Ruling 7/14/2023

[PiratePast40]

It's very difficult to not be defensive whenever this topic comes up, and it's critical that we do everything possible to pull back the fangs and actually listen to those that are willing to have a dialogue. It's also true that many of us have had the experience of being treated like idiots when we try to talk to democrat legislators. At least, I can tell you that I've had that experience both in the capitol building and out in public.

I certainly don't have the answers but know that we can't give up the fight. I believe someone like @betterlatethan is someone that can have an impact, and quite frankly, "coming out" as leaning toward the democrat side is something we should all look at as someone offering an olive branch of sorts. Or at least someone wishing to have a dialogue. Let's see what we can do to strengthen the common bond and make the bridge stronger.

 

[Koda]

If if if if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt. Truth is something you can't spin no matter how hard you try.

Democrats gave us 114 and those who support the Democrat party then gave us 114.

The problem with this is society isnt a single issue voter. Some individuals may vote single issue on the 2A but they are a minority of the voter base, to assume everyone else should line up with them is a lost cause.

Im not certain discussing politics is ever productive, but hypothetically when we discuss other political topics it should show a broader perspective of why gun control gets passed. My guess is many conservative, 2a supports dont see that. What gun rights needs, is more support from liberal gun owners. It may even be the "kingpin" that saves gun rights altogether.

 

[Longwalkhome]

The problem with this is society isnt a single issue voter. Some individuals may vote single issue on the 2A but they are a minority of the voter base, to assume everyone else should line up with them is a lost cause.

Im not certain discussing politics is ever productive, but hypothetically when we discuss other political topics it should show a broader perspective of why gun control gets passed. My guess is many conservative, 2a supports dont see that. What gun rights needs, is more support from liberal gun owners. It may even be the "kingpin" that saves gun rights altogether.

No offense and just discussing this as adults, on NWFA we are only allowed to talk about the single issue of firearms so playing the card"single issue voter" isn't an ace, it's a deuce.

There is a lot of members that have many more issues with the Democrat party but with respect for the rules they don't bring them up.

There are a lot of reasons to not support the democrats but only one we can talk about so we are told we are single issue voters but you know we are not. Place would fall apart quickly if folks really spoke up and any civil conversation would vanish.

No man here is a single issue voter but they do have a single issue that they won't vote for.

 

[Koda]

No offense and just discussing this as adults, on NWFA we are only allowed to talk about the single issue of firearms so playing the card"single issue voter" isn't an ace, it's a deuce.

There is a lot of members that have many more issues with the Democrat party but with respect for the rules they don't bring them up.

There are a lot of reasons to not support the democrats but only one we can talk about so we are told we are single issue voters but you know we are not. Place would fall apart quickly if folks really spoke up and any civil conversation would vanish.

No man here is a single issue voter but they do have a single issue that they won't vote for.

NWFA is a pro gun forum. Political subjects that are off topic arent allowed, but the mods here balance and allow discussion on political topics that do affect gun rights.

There are a lot of reasons to not support the Democrats AND Republicans. There are a lot of members here that have many more issues with the Republican party but with respect to the rules they dont bring them up.

 

[Longwalkhome]

NWFA is a pro gun forum. Political subjects that are off topic arent allowed, but the mods here balance and allow discussion on political topics that do affect gun rights.

There are a lot of reasons to not support the Democrats AND Republicans. There are a lot of members here that have many more issues with the Republican party but with respect to the rules they dont bring them up.

It's the democrats that gave us 114, not the repubs. That means it's one clear issue that separates the parties when it comes to here on NWFA.

Being an independent voter with no affiliation allows me to look at both parties with open eyes. It's the democrats who gave us 114 and all the antigun legislation in Washington state. Whomever voted for the democrats holds partial responsibility for all the anti gun laws we have been flooded with.

It's pretty simple, for all the give and take for decades the democrats stabbed everyone in the back with 114. Everyone, even their fellow dems who supported them and wanted good government only to find out they were played for fools.

 

[Ura-Ki]

And again you try to slip the responsibility of your parties actions by saying it never would of happened if.... Reality is 114 never would have happened if the democrats hadn't created it. That's fact, not the fiction of blaming the outcome on the election on if..if..if.

What makes me comfortable is the democrats are going to be living under 114 too. Your party has put magazine laws and limitations on you, is making you pay for training and a permit and making you wait as long as they want you to for the future gun purchase. I am really good with that part of 114.

I am going to move on, just remember all you democrats that when you don't like the consequences it's your fault that 114 exist. It's your fault Washington state gun laws are so restricted because you support the party that did it to us.

Your conflating a number of different things here, and your hell bent to ONLY blame the Democrats, while ignoring the bigger picture here!
FIRST off, Climb down off your high horse there and LISTEN, this is NOT all the dems fault, VOTERS who DIDN'T Vote are just as much to blame as the idiot LEVO and the dems who supported them are!
SECOND, quit with the blame game, not all the dems voted FOR this horsesh!t, in fact, if they all had, the crush would have been close to 80%, the fact it was less then 1% tells you even the dems think it's horsesh!t! Another FACT, if the Repubs and independents had even bothered to show up and vote, this would have been crushed, like 70% against the dems who DID VOTE!
THIRD, denigrating a bunch of folks here on NWFA isn't winning the hearts and minds to your cause, and will certainly cement your standing as an arrogant arsehole here, a person to be ignored or outright banished to the dustbin of other arseholes who ae so narrow minded and focused on only their own narrowness they cannot and will not ever see the truth or ever change!
FORTH, STOP Playing the victim here, get out and fight like you blast everyone else here to do, walk the walk, don't just talk the talk!

UP THE REPUBLIC, FIGHT, AND VOTE LIKE YOUR RIGHTS DEPEND ON IT, BECAUSE THEY DO!



Pease Out!

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

@Longwalkhome

"There is a lot of members that have many more issues with the Democrat party but with respect for the rules they don't bring them up."

/////////


Maybe if you stopped hiding behind the (REDACTED) ignore feature you might see all the times that folks bring up issues with the Dems . . . or, wait.
Do you have yourself on ignore as well?!?!?!?!?

Because you bring up non firearm related issues with the Democrats all the time

 

[Flopsweat]

...

And in regards to the past, the NRA did not stand up for gun rights when the deliberately anti-black policies were enacted. That's an important historical perspective to remember. Gun rights seem important when they are affecting you.

Let's set something straight right now. While you are technically correct that the NRA didn't address the deliberately anti-black policies, you blatantly neglect to explain why, and that makes all the difference. The NRA does not enter into politics. The NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) does this. The NRA ILA was established in 1975, long after the events that you reference. Prior to 1975, the NRA had nothing to do with politics of any kind.

NRA-ILA | About NRA-ILA

NRA-ILA was established in 1975 and is committed to preserving the 2nd Amendment and fighting for the rights of law-abiding gun owners.

www.nraila.org

So, to make this claim is disingenuous at best. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you just didn't know. Now you do.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Your conflating a number of different things here, and your hell bent to ONLY blame the Democrats, while ignoring the bigger picture here!
FIRST off, Climb down off your high horse there and LISTEN, this is NOT all the dems fault, VOTERS who DIDN'T Vote are just as much to blame as the idiot LEVO and the dems who supported them are!
SECOND, quit with the blame game, not all the dems voted FOR this horsesh!t, in fact, if they all had, the crush would have been close to 80%, the fact it was less then 1% tells you even the dems think it's horsesh!t! Another FACT, if the Repubs and independents had even bothered to show up and vote, this would have been crushed, like 70% against the dems who DID VOTE!
THIRD, denigrating a bunch of folks here on NWFA isn't winning the hearts and minds to your cause, and will certainly cement your standing as an arrogant arsehole here, a person to be ignored or outright banished to the dustbin of other arseholes who ae so narrow minded and focused on only their own narrowness they cannot and will not ever see the truth or ever change!
FORTH, STOP Playing the victim here, get out and fight like you blast everyone else here to do, walk the walk, don't just talk the talk!

UP THE REPUBLIC, FIGHT, AND VOTE LIKE YOUR RIGHTS DEPEND ON IT, BECAUSE THEY DO!



Pease Out!

you sure told me off huh. That last part in all caps was filled with emotion.

What you don't understand is you have to spank people when they do bad things. You can't let them do things and just walk on like it never happened or they go on to do worse. When people are brought out for public shaming then it's like a spanking if they care what others think. It's gone well past the point when you could just admonish people to be better, they need to be shamed for 114.

My high horse is atop of our constitution and I won't climb down and as long as I have fee speech I will voice my opinions on democrats and gun legislation. The community here at NWFA needs to focus on who it is bringing anti gun laws. Instead of patting them on the back like good old boys we need to be asking WTF are you doing voting for the people who have flooded the west coast with Anti gun laws.

Those who still want to be democrats, well you get exactly what you voted for. If 114 hurts then good deal, you hurt the entire NWFA community by supporting the democrats.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Some things to consider here....

It is unwise to be so entrenched in your position...that you drown in your own moat.

Also....
Saying the same thing over and over...albeit with different phrasing , still won't get your message across , if someone doesn't want to listen to you.
Andy

 

[Flopsweat]

Instead of patting them on the back like good old boys we need to be asking WTF are you doing voting for the people who have flooded the west coast with Anti gun laws.

 

[betterlatethan]

Let's set something straight right now. While you are technically correct that the NRA didn't address the deliberately anti-black policies, you blatantly neglect to explain why, and that makes all the difference. The NRA does not enter into politics. The NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) does this. The NRA ILA was established in 1975, long after the events that you reference. Prior to 1975, the NRA had nothing to do with politics of any kind.

NRA-ILA | About NRA-ILA

NRA-ILA was established in 1975 and is committed to preserving the 2nd Amendment and fighting for the rights of law-abiding gun owners.

www.nraila.org

So, to make this claim is disingenuous at best. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you just didn't know. Now you do.

um....

Mumford Act, 1967.

"Both Republicans and Democrats in California supported increased gun control, as did the National Rifle Association of America.[9][10]​ Governor Ronald Reagan, who was coincidentally present on the capitol lawn when the protesters arrived, later commented that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons" and that guns were a "ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will." In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act "would work no hardship on the honest citizen."[3]"​

pulled with citations from Wikipedia. Yes, Wikipedia can be a poor factual resource, but that's the reason for the citations​

 

[Longwalkhome]

Some things to consider here....

It is unwise to be so entrenched in your position...that you drown in your own moat.

Also....
Saying the same thing over and over...albeit with different phrasing , still won't get your message across , if someone doesn't want to listen to you.
Andy

sometimes you have to say something more than once for it to register, it why the government has its propaganda machines running night and day to get their message across.

There will be some who agree it needed to be said and many who just don't want to hear the truth but it's been said with civility. To drown in the moat around the Constitution is a privilege.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

sometimes you have to say something more than once for it to register, it why the government has its propaganda machines running night and day to get their message across.

There will be some who agree it needed to be said and many who just don't want to hear the truth but it's been said with civility. To drown in the moat around the Constitution is a privilege.

What...did you say something...?

"Truth"...is a excellent Jeff Beck album....any other use of the word truth will be subjective.
Andy

Edit to add...
Some things are indeed a universal truth....things like the law of gravity and the like....
You can believe in that or not at your own risk....

 

[Koda]

The community here at NWFA needs to focus on who it is bringing anti gun laws. Instead of patting them on the back like good old boys we need to be asking WTF are you doing voting for the people who have flooded the west coast with Anti gun laws.

Everyone in this forum knows and agrees the Democrats bring anti gun laws and its been answered many times that the Democrat gun owners that vote Democrat anyways do so because they are not single issue voters. This is well documented.
So whats the solution? Do you really think shaming them will work? How would you even go about doing that?

 

[Kruel J]

Both parties suck.

 

[Longwalkhome]

What...did you say something...?

"Truth"...is a excellent Jeff Beck album....any other use of the word truth will be subjective.
Andy

Edit to add...
Some things are indeed a universal truth....things like the law of gravity and the like....
You can believe in that or not at your own risk....

I guess we could talk about the truth but I hate repeating the same words over and over on the subject to a mind that has been made up. People want to believe that the truth is a matter of how the individual sees a subject but just because people don't see the truth it doesn't mean it isn't true. Truth isn't subjective unless the person has made up their mind already.

You will agree or disagree because of your own life experiences.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I guess we could talk about the truth but I hate repeating the same words over and over on the subject to a mind that has been made up. People want to believe that the truth is a matter of how the individual sees a subject but just because people don't see the truth it doesn't mean it isn't true. Truth isn't subjective unless the person has made up their mind already.

You will agree or disagree because of your own life experiences.

Wow...how bout the word Irony...
'Cause one could argue , all while quoting many of your posts...that you have your mind made up about a whole lot of things...
Not to forget the whole repeating the same words over and over....
Andy

 

[Koda]

People want to believe that the truth is a matter of how the individual sees a subject but just because people don't see the truth it doesn't mean it isn't true. Truth isn't subjective unless the person has made up their mind already.

who gets to decide what the truth is?

 

[Longwalkhome]

Everyone in this forum knows and agrees the Democrats bring anti gun laws and its been answered many times that the Democrat gun owners that vote Democrat anyways do so because they are not single issue voters. This is well documented.
So whats the solution? Do you really think shaming them will work? How would you even go about doing that?

I have my answer but I doubt folks would agree. No doubt that in today's political climate we are not going to get democrats to swing our way. Might be able to get somewhere if the dems are removed at the next election but right now there is no way the left comes around.