Official! There is NO link between gun ownership and crime.

[308]

Yes, we the law abiding gun owners already know that we aren't the problem but we sure have been kicked in the nutz for it by the left. It's "our way or the highway" mentality that prevents them from sayin "we effed up". They will never come off the railroading they put on us.

At first I thought, Caveman Jim is speaking of the male / female dynamic....but I digress..sry.

 

[P7M13]

Well, there are an estimated 300 million guns in the United States owned by an estimated 100 million citizens, and yet we don't have 100 million gun crimes annually. The US population is around 330 million.
Far from the wild west image portrayed in print or film. I do feel that anecdotally, crime (including firearms related crime) is more prevalent in areas of higher population density. But it is still not the density that is the underlying cause, but more the socioeconomic disparity for general (not mass-type events) crime. I suppose infant mortality might show that here. This disparity is very complex in that there are many factors involved.
Of course, most US gun owners (and tac) realize this. And that complex human issues don't have simple solutions.

Yes, and we live in the society of sound bites, Facebook, Twitter and the disappearing messages of Snapchat. Posing a social conundrum to anyone that has more than one degree of freedom is a problem too difficult to solve. Got crime? Get rid of guns.
When we are dealing with a group that thinks a sit-in in the house of representatives is going to do something for gun control, hopefully their constituency realizes that their representative is wearing a sandwich board that says on the front, "I'm a powerless fvcktard", and on the back "Kick me if you think I'm stupid".
Ponder that one for a second: members of Congress, holding a sit-in on the floor of the House of Representatives.

I have encountered multiple rejections of studies because "those were shills for the NRA" or what-not, and have successfully countered them by pointing to the data, the sample sizes, their criteria for data selection, and their analysis methodology. Confirmation bias is real and one does need to assess the objectivity of the researchers.
I downloaded the study to review, unfortunately I do not speak or read French. I had hoped to find a translation, however the study is not listed in the author's corpus, despite having >50 published papers. The fact that it is not published means it has not undergone the scrutiny of peer review, which would be used as a basis for rejecting the study, validity or not.

 

[tac]

The problem over here guys is that ALL the political parties are anti-gun.

Mr John Major set the ban in motion just before the 1997 General Election [surprise, surprise], but lost the majority vote. Athony B Liar and the Labour party got in, and carried out the ban, and added .22 handguns as well for good measure, helped tremendously by a gigantic wave of public sympathy for the tragedy of Dunblane, and the huge amounts of money from the likes of Seán Connery, who actually paid hundreds of thousands of pounds for a nation-wide billboard campaign pointing put that '22s kill as dead as a .45'.

There are a few friends in parliament, but by and large, shooting is still a minority sport in yUK, nothwithstanding the great successes of our sportsmen and women of all ages - from fifteen up, who compete internationally and bring kudos and prestige to the nation with their efforts.

It's a sad and sorry fact that any politician who stood up in the House and asked for a reduction in the drastic nature of the present firearms laws would be in the dole line next morning.

tac

 

[Caveman Jim]

At first I thought, Caveman Jim is speaking of the male / female dynamic....but I digress..sry.

You are correct, I speak many tongues for all of humanity to hear but sadly most close their eyes and stay ignorant.....

 

[SkeetAt40Below]

Well, Sir, I apologise for living in the repressive régime where I can't have all the guns I'd like. Just to remind you that prior to 1997 I had 118 handguns here in yUK - a reasonable collection that included one of each and every model of S&W Model 29 ever made.

It took the slaughter of sixteen 1st grade kids and their teacher - an event that took place 21 years ago yesterday in Dunblane, Scotland - to get the government of the day to bring about a handgun ban that, in the words of the prime minister at that time, Mr Tony B Liar, 'took over a hundred-thousand handguns off the streets, making Britain a safer place overnight'. Every one of those hundred-thousand handguns was legally owned, but just ONE of them was used to commit mayhem by a known pedophile with an odd frame of mind who the police allowed to keep his guns in spite of a recommendation from another police force that they should be taken off him.

With 100,000 handguns no longer in the hands of their legal owners - and for no apparent reason except an inrush of foreigners from the former Soviet Union and satellite nations, drugs and gangs resorted to ever-increasing use of ILLEGAL handguns to the point in 2009 where handgun crime was over 400% higher than it had been before the ban.

That figure is thankfully dropping year by year, but the correlation between legal gun ownership and crime figures has never been more appositely dismissed than in those figures.

Northern Ireland, part of the UK that saw thirty years of genuine urban terrorism, with bombings and shootings of security forces and civilians an almost daily event, STILL had handguns legally.

Why?

Well, it's because NONE of the murder and mayhem over there was committed using LEGALLY-held handguns, OR long arms of any kind. With those figures to hand, the Northern Ireland Assembly told the Westminster government to go pi$$ up a rope, and the Ulstermen kept their handguns. In fact, there are over 3000 government-issued CCW certificates, and a free pistol, on issue to those who feel that their lives are still endangered by the situation prevailing there - something that happens nowhere else in Europe.

tac, member of a gun club with almost 400 fellow shooters.

If this novel is in response to me- I'd say "Lighten Up, Francis- it was a joke"

 

[11Charlie]

If this novel is in response to me- I'd say "Lighten Up, Francis- it was a joke"

Might have been intended as a joke but it came across the wrong way to a very highly esteemed member of NWFA.

Just sayn

 

[SkeetAt40Below]

Might have been intended as a joke but it came across the wrong way to a very highly esteemed member of NWFA.

Just sayn

I quoted "The Big Lebowski", attributed it to the character in the comedy film, and put a smiley on it. I can't think of any more I could have done to make it perfectly clear it was in jest.

 

[tac]

Whether or not it was meant as a joke or dig at the way we do things here, I'm just telling you the way it is and the why of it.

Feel free to take the p*ss or whatever floats your boat, I'm just passing through here, OK?

And on my way, showing you how it could very easily become your situation, too, given the number of flongs you have in your government who are firm in their belief that the Second Amendment represented a passing fad of a bunch of 18thC fuddy-duddies.

tac

 

[Mark W.]

I think some of the people in this thread commenting on the article should actually read it.

What I got out of it is that WE couldn't be more correct in our position that guns or the availability of guns does not increase the likely hood of murder (they didn't go into property crimes etc.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Yep, guns don't kill people..... you know the rest. It's about the mental state of those who choose the criminal path versus being part of the law abiding masses who give a damn about others rights and property. Politicians are ignorant of facts that can prevent gun violence that it's pathetic, they just have an agenda to control ALL PEOPLE.
They don't G.A.S. about what the people know is the right option, we do not know what's good for us, THEY DO!!!

 

[Caveman Jim]

Just wrote a friendly note to my Senator regarding this topic, maybe it will do some good as he was a D Representative until this last election and won the opening for retiring Senator Jim Hargrove, who was a staunch 2A Democrat.

Dear Sen. Van De Wege,
Thanks for the reply, a bit late but better than no reply at all like one of my other Reps. (Theringer)
I must ask you if your allegiance to the 2 Amendment has changed since you became a Senator?
I would like to relay a link to a study done abroad about the link of gun owners and gun violence that I'd like your feedback on. Link between ownership of firearms and homicides - all4shooters

As always, please think of all your constituents before you vote on laws that will impair and infringe on our rights.

Regards. Caveman Jim

 

[P7M13]

The second study pointed to by the article does provide very interesting data (there's a lot to dig through).

FIRE: Fighting Illicit firearms trafficking Routes and actors at the European level.

What I glean from reading it is that restricting firearms to the general population will have a negligible effect on the availability of guns to criminals or terrorists. We all know that already - unfortunately the pols don't seem to understand.

 

[tac]

Post deleted.

 

[Koda]

It's true to say that we, the ordinary Joe and Joe-ess, seem to be more aware of reality than those people whom we temporarily elect to be in charge of our affairs.

It must be plainly obvious to anybody who can count to more than twenty unaided without borrowing another person - simply by looking at the crime statistics so thoughtfully provided by our various criminal investigation authorities - that those place where most everybody is either carrying a legal gun as a CCW, or has immediate or near-immediate access to a gun when necessary, have a correspondingly lower crime rate than those places where these FACTS do not purtain.

I'll just name one place, familiar to many of us here, that stood and still stands as a shining example of what happens to criminals when almost every body of sound limb and healthy law-abiding morals, capable of remaining vertical and breathing long enough to haul out a piece of some kind, are in the majority of the population.

Kennesaw, GA.

I rest my case.

tac

Be careful using pro gun statistics and examples. You wont win any debates using statistics as an offensive approach to prove your point. Correlation does not equal causation, Kennesaws demographics is no where close to other cities plauqed with violence. By the same logic, one can argue that gun control works because "gun violence" in Japan is virtually zero and they have a total prohibition there and way more people than little ol Kennesaw.

Only use pro gun statistics to counter anti gun statistics, never the other way around.

 

[tac]

It's odd that you should adopt that view, since statistics are what the nay-sayers use against us.

If you can't counter the no's and their negative evidence with yes's and positive evidence, how then are you supposed to put your case over?

tac

 

[Koda]

It's odd that you should adopt that view, since statistics are what the nay-sayers use against us.

If you can't counter the no's and their negative evidence with yes's and positive evidence, how then are you supposed to put your case over?

tac

Thats actually what im saying.

 

[tac]

You are? Looks like you were saying that I was screwing it up using an example like Kennesaw? Anyhow, to save any future cock-ups, prolly due to mistranslation, I've pulled my post.

tac

 

[Koda]

To clarify, im saying to use statistics as a counterpoint.

Im suggesting that if you use statistics as an offensive they can use theirs to counter your and that puts you on the defensive. A good debater should leave the topic on the offensive.

Statistics counter each other, so work them in your favor only.

 

[Koda]

You are? Looks like you were saying that I was screwing it up using an example like Kennesaw? Anyhow, to save any future cock-ups, prolly due to mistranslation, I've pulled my post.

tac

You didnt need to pull your post. Kennesaw is a good example of the tpoic.

Sorry for any confusion, im not the best at explaining things sometimes

 

[tac]

o.

tac