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If anything, the link is inverse: More guns, less crime.

But gun control is clearly not for stopping crime. It exists because rulers don't like armed peons.
 
Well, there are an estimated 300 million guns in the United States owned by an estimated 100 million citizens, and yet we don't have 100 million gun crimes annually. The US population is around 330 million.
Far from the wild west image portrayed in print or film. I do feel that anecdotally, crime (including firearms related crime) is more prevalent in areas of higher population density. But it is still not the density that is the underlying cause, but more the socioeconomic disparity for general (not mass-type events) crime. I suppose infant mortality might show that here. This disparity is very complex in that there are many factors involved.
Of course, most US gun owners (and tac) realize this. And that complex human issues don't have simple solutions.
 
Well, there are an estimated 300 million guns in the United States owned by an estimated 100 million citizens, and yet we don't have 100 million gun crimes annually. The US population is around 330 million.
Far from the wild west image portrayed in print or film. I do feel that anecdotally, crime (including firearms related crime) is more prevalent in areas of higher population density. But it is still not the density that is the underlying cause, but more the socioeconomic disparity for general (not mass-type events) crime. I suppose infant mortality might show that here. This disparity is very complex in that there are many factors involved.
Of course, most US gun owners (and tac) realize this. And that complex human issues don't have simple solutions.
Outstanding reply. There are just so many, many variables relating to this issue. And to make decisions that are worthwhile and meaningful it takes people demonstrating respect for each other, the ability to listen, to articulate, and to be rational. I care what the "anti's" think and why they think that way. I don't agree with them but to understand them gives me approaches and ideas hopefully to come to a consensus and perhaps a resolve.
 
Yes, we the law abiding gun owners already know that we aren't the problem but we sure have been kicked in the nutz for it by the left. It's "our way or the highway" mentality that prevents them from sayin "we effed up". They will never come off the railroading they put on us.:mad::mad::mad:
 
Dont get excited the antis will just say the metrics are skewed and biased and therefore irrelevant (while ignoring their own statistical bias). Solid (unbiased) pro-gun statistics have been around for years and have been completely refuted by the antis.
 
IIRC in a debate years ago I brought up Gary Klecks DGU statistics and the opposing response was it was biased and then presented with anti-gun statistics I found out later were funded by Bloomberg.
 
In related news ...

Our neighbor to the south, Mexico, has some of the most restrictive firearms laws on the books. Licensing, possession and use of firearms by regular citizens is very tightly regulated. Their murder rate is 218.49 and they are ranked 26th in the world. Our murder rate is 42.01 and we're ranked 99th in the world.
 
IIRC in a debate years ago I brought up Gary Klecks DGU statistics and the opposing response was it was biased and then presented with anti-gun statistics I found out later were funded by Bloomberg.

First thing I always had my Stats class look at or ask was who paid for it and how was the data gathered. My favorite was the one about chewing gum while taking test made test scores go up. Sponsored by Wrigley's.

Man, I wish I still had that class. We had so much fun tearing data apart.
 
First thing I always had my Stats class look at or ask was who paid for it and how was the data gathered. My favorite was the one about chewing gum while taking test made test scores go up. Sponsored by Wrigley's.

Man, I wish I still had that class. We had so much fun tearing data apart.
So that's not where the expression "chew on it a while" came from? :)
 
Well, Sir, I apologise for living in the repressive régime where I can't have all the guns I'd like. Just to remind you that prior to 1997 I had 118 handguns here in yUK - a reasonable collection that included one of each and every model of S&W Model 29 ever made.

It took the slaughter of sixteen 1st grade kids and their teacher - an event that took place 21 years ago yesterday in Dunblane, Scotland - to get the government of the day to bring about a handgun ban that, in the words of the prime minister at that time, Mr Tony B Liar, 'took over a hundred-thousand handguns off the streets, making Britain a safer place overnight'. Every one of those hundred-thousand handguns was legally owned, but just ONE of them was used to commit mayhem by a known pedophile with an odd frame of mind who the police allowed to keep his guns in spite of a recommendation from another police force that they should be taken off him.

With 100,000 handguns no longer in the hands of their legal owners - and for no apparent reason except an inrush of foreigners from the former Soviet Union and satellite nations, drugs and gangs resorted to ever-increasing use of ILLEGAL handguns to the point in 2009 where handgun crime was over 400% higher than it had been before the ban.

That figure is thankfully dropping year by year, but the correlation between legal gun ownership and crime figures has never been more appositely dismissed than in those figures.

Northern Ireland, part of the UK that saw thirty years of genuine urban terrorism, with bombings and shootings of security forces and civilians an almost daily event, STILL had handguns legally.

Why?

Well, it's because NONE of the murder and mayhem over there was committed using LEGALLY-held handguns, OR long arms of any kind. With those figures to hand, the Northern Ireland Assembly told the Westminster government to go pi$$ up a rope, and the Ulstermen kept their handguns. In fact, there are over 3000 government-issued CCW certificates, and a free pistol, on issue to those who feel that their lives are still endangered by the situation prevailing there - something that happens nowhere else in Europe.

tac, member of a gun club with almost 400 fellow shooters.
 
@tac The only fault I see of the British people is in going along with Blair and successors' (and some of their predecessors' too) successive Fuhrerdiktats rather than revolting against them at the ballot box and throwing ALL the bums out. Ditto Western Canada for not telling Ottawa and the RCMP deciding to legislate-rather-than-enforce what to go do with themselves and their "Prohibited Lists"... and I suppose the same is true of us when we let New York and California pick our Federal-level (ditto Portland and Seattle on State-level) Chief Executive most of the time.
 
Whether you own one gun or a million guns ... the fact that you have a gun is not reason enough to link you or your gun (guns ) with crime or criminal activity.

Just how many folks wear a team baseball cap , yet have no real link or connection to the team?
Andy
 

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