Obama regime targets gunsmiths with new executive order

[Who The F R U]

Feel like sharing with the rest of the class? I'm sure Velzey at least would appreciate that information and its benefit in preserving his livelihood...

Oh, but he's not an 07/SOT, so Up His because he's not one of the Big Boys, and same to all us home/hobbyist 'smiths who tinker with our own toys.

If your not an 07 and manufacturing defense articles for the police,Military or for export the ITAR reg's don't apply.
Man don't get your pantie's all bunched up.

But if you purchase a stripped AR-15 receiver with the intent to assemble and sell it for a profit it IS manufacturing Not gunsmithing. And you will need to get an 07.and it counts toward your 50 gun's for the 11% FET tax.

However if a customer brings a gunsmith all the part's it doesn't count toward the 50 gun's.
Figure that one out ?

And no you can't sell the customer all the crap and have them bring it back the next day it still count's against the 50 firearms entered into commerce law.

 

[jdaddy15911]

I do not see how they are going to be able to enforce this anyway. No one will admit anything other than it came that way..If the election goes right it will be repealed if it goes wrong..................

As an 80% enthusiast, I can tell you it will have a MAJOR impact on anyone that's invested time and money into milling equipment to build their own guns. The 80% lower industry is likely gone now.

We have the government we deserve, because we deserve the government we tolerate.

 

[The Heretic]

If your not an 07 and manufacturing defense articles for the police,Military or for export the ITAR reg's don't apply.

I am betting this is a case of the BATF either not understanding that ITAR doesn't apply to domestic trade, or them thinking they can a piece of the action on unsuspecting small businesses, or, the admin thinking they can hassle small firearms businesses. Maybe a little of each.

I would wait for firearms industry reps to hash it out with the gov.

 

[Diamondback]

It's worth noting that ATF's had a hard-on for the EPL crowd from Day One... look up Rick Celata at KT Ordnance and the crap they've given him over the years sometime sometime.

 

[tdocz]

Looks to be targeting reloaders too... This is why I've been getting so bubblegumy about ITAR of late, because I saw this horsecrap coming--the ITAR statutes are so vaguely worded that literally anything made by the human hand can be tortured to be classified as military materiel subject to its slithering tentacles. (And even NOT--livestock and agriculture = "Military Food Rations Materiel," so even just raising one or two beef or dairy cattle or a chicken-coop in your yard is potentially within their purview.)

The memorandum explicitly states that it does not apply to the reloading of ammunition .50 cal or smaller.

It seems to be targeting people in the business of said activities. Since it is illegal to modify an 80% lower and sell it, without serial number, this activity would also be excluded.

Lastly, the registration fee is stated $2600 per year. Ikes!!!

 

[donstewart]

I am (was) a gun smith and used to make custom reloads. Still own a training facility but the gun smith operation is shutting down.

First let's be clear, if your work on a firearm with intent to make money, you are a gunsmith and need an FFL. Same for reloading. That is no longer the real issue however...

Oregon now requires all firearms to be "transferred" when possession changes. Only a licensed FFL is exempt. That puts a stop to most repairs where you are helping out a friend unless it can be done on the spot. Repeat, nobody can leave a gun with you for even minutes unless you have an FFL.

You may have noticed that all the small reloading operations disappeared a couple years ago. That was a previous executive order that imposed a $2500 a year fee if you loading a single round for the purpose of resale. In other words, load for someone else, they reimburse you, and you are in violation. Applies to both FFLs and private citizens.

This new order is similar in that it re-defines a single word, "Manufacture".

Previously we (gun smiths) manufactured a firearm when we built something that required registration. Now many basic gun smith operations such as threading a barrel, building a replacement screw, or any changes that enhances accuracy/performance is considered "manufacturing". The State Department fee is not new, it is the definition that has changed so it now applies to most gun smith operations, cost $2250.

Here is the worst part and nobody is talking about it yet. ATF requires that anytime a firearm goes on our "manufactured" ledger, it must be engraved/stamped with our name, city, and state.

The new law applies to you as an individual. Put in a trigger group to enhance accuracy and you are required to register, pay the fee, and stamp your firearm.

So the issue is a new definition of manufacturing and it kicks in with a single change to any firearm. Almost anything except swapping stock parts or mounting sight.

Can't stand up in court but it wasn't meant to. It's a war of attrition!

 

[tdocz]

If you so much as turn a screw to install a scope You have modified your fire arm! You Improve it's performance!!!

According to the memorandum, engaging in one for one replacement of parts would not be an activity that would apply. But it appears that if you are "in the business of" drilling and tapping an action for a scope you WOULD be required to register.

My question is what exactly does it mean to be "in the business of..."? This phrase is mentioned multiple times in the order but I am uncertain the criteria. Does it mean to be in business for a profit or even just doing someone a favor using your drill press but having said person reimburse you for the cost of the tap and drill bit?

 

[Diamondback]

It's probably similar to how FAA interprets "compensation" on flying--for example, on a Light Sport or Class Three I can fly friends around, but I can't let them even reimburse me for fuel or maintenance costs, or even buy my lunch along the way.

Simple fix there: "YOU go buy the gas on YOUR card. Then it's YOUR fuel we're burning, I'll reimburse you to buy whatever's unused at the end of the flight."

 

[wired]

Still not an executive order.

 

[dejure]

Apparently this just happened:
Obama regime targets gunsmiths with new executive order - Personal Liberty® (http://personalliberty.com/obama-regime-targets-gunsmiths-new-executive-order/)
So the wording, at least from the article, is so problematic, it seems to be open to draconian interpretation. That is, is designed for draconian interpretation and enforcement. But how on earth is this kind of thing going to enforced? Or maybe this is not as far reaching as the article title paints in a broad stroke? From the document
"Applicability of the ITAR Registration Requirement to Firearms Manufacturers and
Gunsmiths" <broken link removed> it says:
ITAR registration is required of persons who engage in the business of manufacturing defense articles. Persons who do not actually manufacture ITAR-controlled firearms (including by engaging in the activities described below, which DDTC has found in specific cases to constitute manufacturing) need not register with DDTC– even if they
have an FFL from ATF"
But in the document, under the heading "2. Registration Required - Manufacturing" has some types of gunsmithing that are alarmingly listed.

Any FFL/Professional Gunsmiths have a take on this, and what it means for us 'hobby' gunsmiths?

WHEN are people going to wake up! First, the obvious - Obama cannot rule by executive order. It's not his federal government to run willy nilly, as he wishes. Second, his authority does not extend over the states on matters of intrastate commerce.

Some years back, in U.S. v. Lopez (115 S.Ct. 1624, 511 U.S. (1995)), the courts reiterated these facts. The feds imposed gun free zones in and around schools. Though executive officers tried to stack these charges on him, they were overturned, as over reaching of the limited interstate commerce powers.

If you don't cross state lines, it's not the fed's business. Ours is not a central government. To that end, the next time someone talks about their country, tell them about your (e.g., The State of Washington, The State of Main, etc.).

Each state is a sovereign country and the District of Columbia [and the U.S.] is foreign to them (case law available on request, and ref. Title 28 of the U.S. Code for further indication of this fact). The District and the U.S. came out of the states. Not they out of it (ref. the Equal Footing Doctrine).

 

[dejure]

One VERY sad thing about all this:

As many know, many states abandoned the prohibition on killer marijuana. This, even as the fed says it just isn't so and that having and using weed is illegal. NOTE that the fed recognizes it could end up extinct and, wisely, does not seek to pretend authority, beyond lip service, to waltz into states and start arresting farm operators, sales clerks and so on.

The simple of it is, as I mentioned, it's a matter of interstate commerce vs intrastate commerce and the right of executive officers (cops) to arrest any federal bubblegum trying to assert sovereign authority where it does not exist.

This does not get discussed on liberal news, but is a very worthy topic and should be considered, in depth, by everyone. Especially all of us drug through the public fool system (a/k/a the carrot-and-stick school system) manipulated by the fed through extortion and grants.

People need to recognize this for what it is - proof of the well documented fact the fed has powers just as limited as the tenth amendment to the U.S. Constitution states.

When's the last time you flew your state flag?

 

[wired]

WHEN are people going to wake up! First, the obvious - Obama cannot rule by executive order. It's not his federal government to run willy nilly, as he wishes. Second, his authority does not extend over the states on matters of intrastate commerce.

This is still not an Executive Order. There are no firearms related executive orders from any president. Go ahead. List the EO's that pertain to firearms. It won't take long. I got my first FFL 15 years ago and I was told the same thing at the time. If I was going to do ANY gunsmithing work I needed an 07. The ITAR thing has been around for years . Its a State Dept rule. It is not an Executive Order.


<broken link removed>

Obamas EO's.


Executive Orders (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/executive-orders)

 

[Joe13]

Johnson is not evil, just a pothead. I have no time for potheads. This I know from personal experience.
No, I do not believe Trump will stab us in the back. This too I know from personal business experience as I've dealt with his brand of businessmen for many years.

I'll take a person who uses pot over one who drinks alcohol any day.

I've never seen a stoner go bat shot crazy before.

Maybe you were just with a bad crowd.

 

[jaws]

Immoral and unconstitutional - Is it 1933 yet?

 

[netcarrier]

Let all have a Felony Party, I mean after all just about everyone will have a felony under their belt, so why not party, say with signs. Sent some Videos and Photo's to the big cheese in the White House. If we could get most all the people to protest and send it to the US Government. I think the guy that signed this will take the next step to repelle it. Maybe he want the people to start something so he can start Marshal Law and save his job............ what do you think?

 

[bmtm09]

I am all about breaking this one

 

[wired]

Maybe he want the people to start something so he can start Marshal Law and save his job............ what do you think?

I remember when Reagan was going to do that. Then Clinton. Then Bush .Now its Obama's turn. Every two term president is going to declare marshall law and keep his job. Then he goes just away.

 

[bmtm09]

The only one to worry about is Hillary...she might actually do it...I understand that the end of her term will coincide with her monthly friend.

 

[wired]

That bubblegum hasnt had a monthly friend in a long time.

 

[Brutus57]

I talked with a good friend of mine today. An amazing engraver, he has been depressed the last 2 days after reading this garbage bunch of EOs. He said anybody should see this clearly as an attempt to turn people into felons and ultimately ban AWB as the first step. Why else would you target gunsmiths?

Brutus Out