Poll: NWFA and the Finicum shooting: where does the membership stand?

[etrain16]

Do not EVER read what you want to hear into what is said! I will under no circumstances allow you to put words into my mouth! They DID make it a point to tell everyone they were armed. Just because you CAN does not mean you should! Not involving guns has absolutely NOTHING to do with relinquishing ANY rights especially not your first amendment rights! You can talk ALL you want w/o being armed! AND as soon as the liberal MSM gets wind of armed takeover THAT is all it becomes about to their public!

But you are putting the blame on the protesters, who are expressing their constitutional rights, including the right to bear arms. It makes no difference how the MSM or politicians take it! We don't surrender our rights to make THEM feel better. Screw them all if they get worked up over people peacefully protesting, whether they are armed or not. So I stand by what I said - you're so worried about what the anti-gun crowd thinks, you blame the protesters for exercising their RIGHTS - remember rights?? Who gives a damn what the media thinks about that?? How about instead of attacking pro-gun folks, you turn your energy against the MSM and teach them a lesson about what our rights mean. Speak back to them - they are the ones in the wrong here.

 

[Mark Torrence]

You make my point beautifully! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR RIGHTS! It has everything to do with the Ranchers and residents of the areas right to their land! THAT is what this should be about not your right to be armed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And by the way I didn't blame ANYONE!

 

[Boboclown]

Right to their land but want them to be unarmed? Sounds like what the government would want so they can just walk right on in and kick em out with little to no effort.

It wasn't about the right to be armed, but you sure as hell shouldn't be unarmed. It is what it is.

I'm not choosing sides, but I'm not going to say they should have been unarmed.

 

[etrain16]

You make my point beautifully! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR RIGHTS! It has everything to do with the Ranchers and residents of the areas right to their land! THAT is what this should be about not your right to be armed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And by the way I didn't blame ANYONE!

I don't know if I can make it more clear to you, so I'll leave this as my last response, maybe it will click with you, maybe it won't.

The ranchers are fighting the feds over property rights. That is one of the fights here. Many believe that the public lands should be managed by the state, not the federal government. That's kind of at the heart of this whole issue.

Many have argued that this is an issue for Oregon property owners and that folks from out of town should mind their own business. Well, as long as the feds are involved, it really doesn't matter where the stand is made, it's a federal issue, affecting ranchers all over the country. The folks protesting chose this location because it was in the news and could get the attention needed for their protest.

They came and set up their 'camp' in order to protest federal overreach regarding the management of public lands. In so doing, they had to violate some laws, such as trespassing, which is hardly uncommon for protesters all over this country. And, as a matter of course, they also happened to be armed. They did not come in guns blazing, they did not point their guns at employees of the refuge. They did not take anyone hostage. But yes, they were armed. Both the first amendment and the second amendment were being represented as a part of their protest - their right to assemble, their right to free speech, and their right to keep and bear arms.

You took issue with the fact that they were armed. You stated:

"Had the protesters moved into the Malheur refuge WITHOUT guns then the biased liberal MSM and our criminally negligent governor would have never shifted the focus from the abuses of the county sheriff, USFWS and BLM to the "ARMED MILITANTS" That single move unfortunately completely invalidated the entire point of the occupation and what they wanted to accomplish. This is a sad thing for everyone involved! And yes ALL this entire event has done is to draw negative attention to a legitimate cause!"

The point I'm making is, it is irrelevant if they are armed. Just because the MSM blows up the story for that reason, doesn't mean they shouldn't have been armed in the first place. You may debate if it was the right move politically, but that doesn't mean it invalidates their right to do it in the first place.

So what if the Governor turns her eyes over there. Wasn't that the point? Wasn't getting people all over the country aware of the mis-management and over-reach of the federal government concerning public lands the plan in the first place? I would say that the fact that they were armed helped get even more coverage, and got more people involved in the discussion, and I think that's a good thing.

If you want to protest and leave you guns at home, that is your right and your prerogative, just as it was their right and prerogative to be armed for this protest.

If the MSM and the governor get their panties in a bunch over people exercising their 2nd amendment rights during a protest, then it only demonstrates one thing - they are incapable of respecting the rights of others to do exactly what they did at the refuge. And I could care less if it works them up. It's about time someone took the time to do it.

 

[Mark Torrence]

Clearly your right so you go girl! You've made my point!

 

[Boboclown]

Yeesh... Some misunderstanding going on. Before we go on doing 2+2 to get 5 let's read again. Etrain didn't say it was about the 2nd Amendment. He just said that they shouldn't forego using one right in order to use another just because of MSM, or other groups/people. Or at least something along those lines.

Doesn't matter if you think they should have been unarmed. They still have that right, and should not have to forego using it.

 

[jluck]

Who farted?

 

[etrain16]

Yeesh... Some misunderstanding going on. Before we go on doing 2+2 to get 5 let's read again. Etrain didn't say it was about the 2nd Amendment. He just said that they shouldn't forego using one right in order to use another just because of MSM, or other groups/people. Or at least something along those lines.

Doesn't matter if you think they should have been unarmed. They still have that right, and should not have to forego using it.

Yeah, some people don't get it. Worrying more about the media than about individual rights is something I can't agree with, but clearly he believes differently. And, thankfully, we live in a country where we can each have our own opinions, right or wrong. I may disagree with his assessment, but I support his right to believe the way he does.

 

[U201491]

TODAY at 4:15 this afternoon

<broken link removed>

Vigil to honor Lavoy Finicum at the capitol steps in Salem

Saturday, February 6, 2016
4:15 PM

 

[Certaindeaf]

There were actual hilly knolls everywhere!
next

 

[Joe13]

Clearly your right so you go girl! You've made my point!

Mark,

I wish I had a prize for you but do not; however, you have broken the previous record for the fastest person to join with the least amount of posts to ever get put on my Ignore list.

You truly are a superstar, congratulations.

 

[Mark Torrence]

Mark,

I wish I had a prize for you but do not; however, you have broken the previous record for the fastest person to join with the least amount of posts to ever get put on my Ignore list.

You truly are a superstar, congratulations.

At least I did something right!]\

 

[Stomper]

Actually.... you screwed up. There's a bracket and backslash at the end of your post.

 

[Mark Torrence]

Man the amount of hate here is astounding. A guy tries to make a point that there is more than one way to exercise your second amendment rights and taking away from the purpose of a certain demonstration is counterproductive. That's all. You people are so single minded that you are completely unable to see a different point of view! THAT is sad. Our government and the powers behind it have done on absolutely masterful job at divide and conquer! I hope you are all successful in your wildest dreams!

 

[Stomper]

"Hate".... the most overused, thrown around word in America.

 

[Boboclown]

I don't see a lot of hate going on here. Then again I actually experienced hate first hand on both ends of the spectrum. But what would I know?

 

[Stomper]

Is it an east-coast/west-coast kinda thing thing, ya think?

 

[Mikej]

Man the amount of hate here is astounding. A guy tries to make a point that there is more than one way to exercise your second amendment rights and taking away from the purpose of a certain demonstration is counterproductive. That's all. You people are so single minded that you are completely unable to see a different point of view! THAT is sad. Our government and the powers behind it have done on absolutely masterful job at divide and conquer! I hope you are all successful in your wildest dreams!

What you don't realize is that there are a HUGE number of members that won't touch some discussions once they've passed a certain point.

Welcome to the site, and here's hoping you can find your niche here!

 

[Boboclown]

Is it an east-coast/west-coast kinda thing thing, ya think?

Nah, that's called friendly rivalry.

 

[Norm0931]

This is pretty telling that the whole thing was a bad shoot. I can't say if it was planned or not, but I fully believe the points he makes in this video. Firing one handed with your left hand is clearly the use of a taser.