National NRA Dirty Laundry aired

[Ura-Ki]

Careful folks, passionate discussions are good, but divisive comments and snide jabs do nothing but divide us! Lets get the discussion back on track please!

 

[MannyGlocks]

CC,

You hate the NRA - got it...their shortcomings put you in a tizzy, got that too.

I'm sorry, but spluttering with rage that the NRA isn't your cup of tea won't force them to clean house.

Maybe, members walking away 'may' help them do better, but just venting isn't going going to get the job done.

Most members and non-members see their need to do better, but simply excoriating them isn't terribly helpful, but sure it may help the complacent to sit up and take notice...or not, as rage against the machine turns off the listening of a lot of folks...

BTW, are you a current member?

Ever been a member?

If you're not a member, I extend my welcome for you to join on behalf of the NRA as a simple associate me own self...

Try it, you'll like it and it may help direct your efforts to help them help themselves.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

CC,

You hate the NRA - got it...their shortcomings put you in a tizzy, got that too.

I'm sorry, but spluttering with rage that the NRA isn't your cup of tea won't force them to clean house.

Maybe, members walking away 'may' help them do better, but just venting isn't going going to get the job done.

Most members and non-members see their need to do better, but simply excoriating them isn't terribly helpful, but sure it may help the complacent to sit up and take notice...or not, as rage against the machine turns off the listening of a lot of folks...

BTW, are you a current member?

Ever been a member?

If you're not a member, I extend my welcome for you to join on behalf of the NRA as a simple associate me own self...

Try it, you'll like it and it may help direct your efforts to help them help themselves.

The current problem with the NRA is that it's almost impossible to fix at this point. Wayne, Marion, and their cronies have firmly entrenched themselves, surrounded themselves by loyal board members that they essentially hand pick, and recently changed the rules to make it even harder for new blood to get elected to the Board of Directors without the blessing of their nominating committee. Just look into Adam Kraut's attempts to run for the BoD and how much pushback he got, including from Marion Hammer directly.

They've essentially written themselves in as dictators for life.

Add into that the extremely suspicious ties between LaPierre, Ackerman McQueen, and their various shell companies, and you can see we're not talking about just membership donations here. For instance, did you know that Wayne's wife used to work for Ackerman McQueen while they were getting large contracts from the NRA, and Angus McQueen's son-in-law now happens to work for the NRA? Sure would be convenient for funneling kickbacks, wouldn't it?

There has been a lot of money changing hands between LaPierre and AM over the last two decades, so who knows how many board members' loyalties have been bought over the years. If there are kickbacks involved, which surely seems likely, how many board members would vote to cut off their own supply of money?

It's pretty much a given that Marion Hammer is in on it, as she was instrumental in helping in the coup to oust Neal Knox and install Charleton Heston in his place. This helps explain her $300,000 salary for doing practically nothing. Last I heard, she hasn't attended a single meeting in over 3 years, yet still somehow retains her position and salary.

Do you know why they went to so much trouble to oust Neal Knox? He just so happened to be questioning Wayne LaPierre's improprietary relationship with Ackerman McQueen. Shocking, isn't it?

How anyone can continue to support and donate money to this organization is completely beyond me.

 

[MannyGlocks]

CC,

Yup, they's bad and your researching skill is nonpareil, as you would have pro-gunners believe, but (without rancor) I don't trust your...perspective...

How have you managed to find all this dirt?

I find what you have to say more than a bit anti-gun, as in pro-gun control as in bring down the NRA for reasons the ahem, non-right, espouse as a means of bringing down the NRA...as in get that dreaded (by the non-right) organization actively hated even by pro-gun folk.

So, suffice it to say, your anti-NRA diatribes don't sway me.

Truly, I find what you say to be highly suspect...

Why not answer my questions: Are you a an NRA member or ever have been?

What, don't care to admit one way or the other?

Sounds rather lawyerly....is that your profession?

Are you pro-gun?

These questions are simple and easy to answer.

 

[surevaliance]

The worst anti-gun organisation that I've ever seen is NRA: over the years they've done more damage to the 2nd than Bloomberg, Feinstein & Co together.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

CC,

Yup, they's bad and your researching skill is nonpareil, as you would have pro-gunners believe, but (without rancor) I don't trust your...perspective...

How have you managed to find all this dirt?

I find what you have to say more than a bit anti-gun, as in pro-gun control as in bring down the NRA for reasons the ahem, non-right, espouse as a means of bringing down the NRA...as in get that dreaded (by the non-right) organization actively hated even by pro-gun folk.

So, suffice it to say, your anti-NRA diatribes don't sway me.

Truly, I find what you say to be highly suspect...

Why not answer my questions: Are you a an NRA member or ever have been?

What, don't care to admit one way or the other?

Sounds rather lawyerly....is that your profession?

Are you pro-gun?

These questions are simple and easy to answer.

Sorry, meant to answer your question in my previous post. Yes, I have been a member of the NRA, but am not currently. As to why not, I prefer not to associate myself with crooks or criminals, and have told them multiple times I will gladly rejoin once they remove LaPierre, Cox, and Hammer.

As for pro-gun, I am absolutely pro-gun, and obviously more so than others here in this thread, as I don't pick and choose what guns or accessories I support.

As for the statements I have made, you don't have to take my word for it. Simply search for Adam Kraut for NRA, NRA and Ackerman McQueen, or any of the other many topics I addressed. Everything you need to make an informed opinion is right at your fingertips.

I'm also not concerned whether I've swayed you or not. I'm simply voicing my opinion of the NRA in a thread about the NRA's dirty laundry. Seemed appropriate to me.

 

[11Charlie]

This thread is close to being shut down. Rule 1 gentlemen!

 

[MxOverkill]

How anyone can continue to support and donate money to this organization is completely beyond me.

The word "donate" is important because the NRA operates under at least two nonprofit status's. With nonprofit status comes certain rules and obligations which do not apply to for-profit organizations.

The Internal Revenue Service and the charitable activities sections of the various Attorney General's offices in the states in which NRA operates will likely play a big role in bringing the organization back into conformity.

 

[MannyGlocks]

CC,

OK, you've given me the impetus to look further into this.

I hope the corruption (what else could it be?) is something I'll look further into.

I hope you're wrong...

I know a long time NRA board member I can contact who is someone I respect.

Yeah, he's not your average member (like me) and is quite knowledgable being on the inside of the NRA.

Will he be candid with me?

Maybe, but he is a lawyer...and while we know each other, he's not a close personal friend.

If he'll be candid, I too will launch into 'bring this awfulness to a head,' so it can be immediately lanced.

Give me some time and I'll contact him.

On an aside, he helped frame the original Texas concealed carry laws and later the open carry laws.

George W. Bush often consulted him for Texas gun law advise...

 

[DB is Here]

Three staff members have now asked that the divisive content be mitigated, Casting aspersions against "any group' is against forum rules, this isn't rocket science.

I applaud those that spoke about the facts w/o making others feel "small" in the process. To those that make their points with a sledgehammer...Let's please do better.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

The word "donate" is important because the NRA operates under at least two nonprofit status's. With nonprofit status comes certain rules and obligations which do not apply to for-profit organizations.

The Internal Revenue Service and the charitable activities sections of the various Attorney General's offices in the states in which NRA operates will likely play a big role in bringing the organization back into conformity.

Or in the case of New York's laws regarding the fiduciary responsibility of the Board of Directors, this may end up with sanctions, or quite possibly the disbandment of the entire organization.

Unfortunately, that's what happens when you have crooks running the company. I certainly hope the Board of Directors is smart enough to eject those responsible before they bring the entire organization crashing down around them.

Despite many here's beliefs that I am anti-NRA, that is not the truth. I'm against the fact that the NRA is being ran as someone's private cash cow, to the detriment of its original purpose and its members.

If the NRA would kick these thieves to the curb I would support them wholeheartedly, but as long as the NRA supports Wayne et al. I cannot in good conscience support the NRA.

 

[Dan Adams]

Has anyone tried to contact a regional NRA rep and actually got a reply? I have sent quite a few emails to the NRA rep for Washington State over the years and not once have I received a reply. I'm an NRA Life Member but have refused to donate any more money to them until I have proof there's actually a real live person representing our interests.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

CC,

OK, you've given me the impetus to look further into this.

I hope the corruption (what else could it be?) is something I'll look further into.

I hope you're wrong...

I know a long time NRA board member I can contact who is someone I respect.

Yeah, he's not your average member (like me) and is quite knowledgable being on the inside of the NRA.

Will he be candid with me?

Maybe, but he is a lawyer...and while we know each other, he's not a close personal friend.

If he'll be candid, I too will launch into 'bring this awfulness to a head,' so it can be immediately lanced.

Give me some time and I'll contact him.

On an aside, he helped frame the original Texas concealed carry laws and later the open carry laws.

George W. Bush often consulted him for Texas gun law advise...

Could you please let me know what you find out, regardless of outcome? If I am incorrect in my assertations, I would greatly appreciate a chance to apologize for them.

I would love to hear another insider's perceptions on the matter, especially during the Neil Knox era.

 

[Alexx1401]

Words don't ever work for anything. Reason is a fallacy.

Courts work. Law suits work. Buying Congress people work. Getting more people shooting works.

Words. Do. Not. Work.

Shrug, if you are giving up great. I am not going to until it's over. Every gun law we have now did not appear by magic. People voted them in. Many agree with you and have long thrown in the towel and given up saying their vote no longer matters. So they either do not vote, or throw their vote away. This is how we got the politicians we have now. Sad to see so many gun owners give up but I will not. Really hate to see other gun owners encouraging others to join them in giving up too but that's what freedom is all about.

 

[CountryGent]

Has anyone tried to contact a regional NRA rep and actually got a reply?

I have. During the IP-43 fight, I corresponded with at least two state-level NRA reps.

 

[Alexx1401]

You didn't answer my question, though.

Would you feel the same way if magnified optics were banned? Would you still be so nonchalant about it, or would you be upset?

It always amazes me the hypocrisy of those that support infringement on the 2nd Amendment, as long as it doesn't affect them or their sport.

Again sadly this is exactly how we got this way. MANY gun owners do NOT really believe the 2nd is a real "right". They are all in on every compromise that comes along. They believe owning a gun is a privilege like having a drivers license. Unless that changes things just keep getting worse. Sadly I don't see it really getting better until way after it's too late. I do keep hoping many will wake up and I keep swinging at it. Far too many have given up as you often see here.

 

[Alexx1401]

I have. During the IP-43 fight, I corresponded with at least two state-level NRA reps.

Did you ever hear back from them? Other that some "form type reply"? Would be interesting to hear how they responded if they did at all. Again though the real problem is voters. Every time some new stupid law gets put in how many gun owners admit they did nothing? Many you talk to did not even know the new law was being proposed, or that it was on the ballot. They (voters) could not be bothered. Until after something finally effects them. Then they get mad, and want to know why the fill in the blank gun group "allowed this" to happen. Been sad and amazing to watch. The only thing politicians fear is losing their job. Start kicking a few to the curb and many will suddenly have a "change of heart" so to speak. If they keep winning, why would they stop?

 

[CountryGent]

Did you ever hear back from them? Other that some "form type reply"?

I did indeed. As I recall, I emailed, I was directed to another gentleman and given his email address, and we exchanged a few messages on the topic. I don't have the mail in front of me, but it was constructive. The NRA, along with OFF and OOC, sued over IP-43 and it was derailed. Alas, it is back from the grave as a legislation, but that is another topic.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Lets look at this from a different point of view! In the months leading up to the elections of 2016, Hillory went off on her blue lipped rant on how SHE her self single handedly went toe to toe against the NRA and that SHE stood up to them and won for Americans! Never mind that no such thing actually happened, and the only thing she actually did do was to fool Americans into thinking SHE was all powerful enough to stand up to the NRA! We have seen and heard this type of crap from Most Democrats, all claiming how they stand up to the NRA and Gun Lobby! That carries some power in and of it's self, when the Politicos claim to take a stand, they validate the presence of the NRA regardless of internal strife, and THAT says that the NRA still holds enough power ( even in reputation only) that they make it a point to mention their stance against the NRA right from the beginning! What is really funny, NOT ONE has ever went toe to toe with the NRA, EVER! Like or Hate them, they do hold that kind of power, and when Wayne and Co are finally ousted and the NRA can get back to the issues that face us all,then this is what we have!
I was a life member, a gift from my GrandParents, but I renounced that membership many years ago, I saw through the smoke screens and saw Wayne for what he truly is! Sad days ahead, says me! IF the NRA would can the entire leadership from the top down, starting with Wayne, Chris, et all, I would re join!

 

[Alexx1401]

I did indeed. As I recall, I emailed, I was directed to another gentleman and given his email address, and we exchanged a few messages on the topic. I don't have the mail in front of me, but it was constructive. The NRA, along with OFF and OOC, sued over IP-43 and it was derailed. Alas, it is back from the grave as a legislation, but that is another topic.

Great, I was hoping that at least they did not send you some form reply, meaning that no one cared. I have been a member all my life. When I was in Jr high to get a hunting license you had to pass a safety course the NRA put on. Done in a local school after hours. Damn how far we have come from that! At the end of the course they took us to a local range to shoot. With the card we could then go buy a hunting license. This latest news does hurt me deeply and I sure hope they can do something here. It sure sounds like simple greed got out of hand. How often do we sadly see this happen? Piles of money start to roll into some "cause" and some will step in and start grabbing hand fulls.