No ATF form, no shooting?

[gunnoob75]

Another gun owner stomping all over your gun rights and the constitution. Not surprising.

 

[iamme]

Get pouches for your cans- paperwork goes with the can. Only one form needs to be with the SBR- keep it in the stock, or get a lil clip on pouch that stays clipped on during travel/in safe. When at range remove and papers there.

Lets face it folks, all of this paperwork and tax stamp stuff is a big pain in the caboose! Case in point, I have a AR-15 with a 10.5" barrel $200 to the feds, 8 weeks wait for the paperwork, copy rolled up and on-board. Next I get a wild hair and buy a 9mm upper and a 9mm can, another $$200 to the feds and this time a 4 month wait for the paperwork, copy of that one rolled up and on-board. Finally I get a can for the 5.56mm for another $$$200 to the feds, this time its five months wait and once again a copy of the paperwork rolled up and on-board. Dang rifle now weights 10 pounds from all of the paperwork just in case someone feels the need to see if I'm stupid enough to pay the feds $$$$600 extra dollars for my special toys.

 

[telero]

Last time I checked the US which OR is part of still worked under innocent until proven guilty but I guess I could be wrong.........

You're wrong. Being arrested and charged with a crime isn't a guilty verdict.

Another gun owner stomping all over your gun rights and the constitution. Not surprising.

Your statement is vague. Please expand upon your thoughts.

 

[del_and_bones]

People, we are arguing about the difference between the letter of the law and prudence.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this should not be taken as legal council, this is merely a statement of opinion of how I read the law. This post is also obviously in regard to Oregon law, the corresponding Washington law will most likely be different.

The Law:

According to ORS 166.272 (3) the police can arrest you if you do not have the proper documentation in your immediate possession. ORS 166.272 (4) states it is an "affirmative defense" to show that the item is registered in accordance with federal law. In this subsection "affirmative defense" is colloquially an "excuse defense," where you are admitting you did not have the paperwork in your immediate possession but you can indeed produce the paperwork which negates the charges.

Legality vs Prudence

It is legal to not have your paperwork on you. However, you do run the risk of being charged with illegal possession and have to clean an avoidable mess.

It is prudent to keep copies of your stamps with the associated items at all times. I keep two copies with each, just for good measure.

On the original topic: The range officer is being an arrogant pain and it sucks that people like that exist.

Ranb, if you need help with the SBR/SBS stuff next legislative session, let me know. I want to move north after I get my PhD and I have some "joy" that I'd like to bring with me.

 

[SuckerPunch]

As a soon to be ex-kalifornian, tax stamp or not, NFA items are illegal in CA.

If (ex)LEOs actually knew the law they'd be called lawyers and get paid better.

 

[Chunky Milk]

You're wrong. Being arrested and charged with a crime isn't a guilty verdict.

while true, Justice is expensive

 

[JedB]

A tax stamp saying XYZ Trust owns a suppressor doesn't say that I can have it, so then I'm assuming I must carry my Trust papers or Articles of Incorporation if my Corp owns it?

I carry the stamp and a copy of my trust with me in the range bag.
I have never been asked for either, but I'm prepared in case I am.

 

[huntpotter]

How many NFA items do you own? IF you even own any, how many interactions have you had with ANY LEO? Please tell us about any FACTUAL information where the things you say will happen have happened, not just trying to quote law.

Did this question ever get answered? Talks cheap. How many stampz u got?

Sorry dude crapped on your thread ranb.
Like stmcelroy said, Clark rifles asked to see my form 4 first time i whipped one out, but within weeks, changed policy. Its not their problem to verify legal licensure. Ive seen lots of can use there now.

 

[telero]

Did this question ever get answered? Talks cheap. How many stampz u got?

Doesn't matter if I have 1 or 1000 stamps (or none at all), that's not what this thread was about. Go back and read the first 2 pages of this thread. Your last question is atrocious and reflects poorly on you.

Sorry dude crapped on your thread ranb.
Like stmcelroy said, Clark rifles asked to see my form 4 first time i whipped one out, but within weeks, changed policy. Its not their problem to verify legal licensure. Ive seen lots of can use there now.

Don't know how you find this to be thread crapping. The whole point of the thread is about education. Whether it's talking to a club about how their policies are poor, or making sure people know that in Oregon you may need to show your proof of federal registration to an LEO. Since this board seems to be predominantly Oregon and Washington residents, and since there are quite a few Washington residents who live close to Oregon, knowing the Oregon law seems like a good thing. After all, you don't even need to fill out an ATF Form 5320.20 to move silencers between Oregon and Washington. So even if a person from Washington wouldn't be required to show a Washington LEO any proof of registration they may want to know that it could be required if they came over to Oregon to show LEO here.



Ranb actually sums it up quite nicely here:

...instead of supplying me with the statute I was in violation of as promised he talked to some guys at a gun store and they told him I was required to show copies of the forms when asked. I was stunned that he was willing to remain so ignorant instead of making a small effort to educate himself on the law... I spoke to emphasize that we have to obey the law, not gun shop rumors...

 

[Stomper]

I carry the stamp and a copy of my trust with me in the range bag.
I have never been asked for either, but I'm prepared in case I am.

My SBR tax-stamp shows, "Stomper Family Trust" on it, and since it reads, "Stomper" on my ODL its not a huge "leap of logic" to conclude I'm in legal possession of it.

 

[NWSDE]

I was told by an ATF agent that if you don't have a copy of your Form... whichever with the gun it was as if you were never issued one. Is that correct?

I've neve had to show any RSO my paperwork. I've been asked several times if I had them with the item and I just have replied with 'yep'. End of subject from there.

 

[Ranb]

I was told by an ATF agent that if you don't have a copy of your Form... whichever with the gun it was as if you were never issued one. Is that correct?

Of course not. Who was the genius that told you that? You either have the original or you don't. There isn't any law that says you are required to have a copy at any time.

Ranb

 

[Stomper]

Just like your average LEO... Just because someone works for the BATFE doesn't mean they properly know the actual law. Sometimes agents (and LEO's) make sheite up as they to along.

When told something "is the law" politely challenge them for the ordinance/code/statute reference.

 

[JedB]

My SBR tax-stamp shows, "Stomper Family Trust" on it, and since it reads, "Stomper" on my ODL its not a huge "leap of logic" to conclude I'm in legal possession of it.

My last name is very long, germanic and complicated to spell. turns out, so is the name on my trust.
I would prefer to remove all doubt instead of relying on the conclusions of some one else.

Like one of the above folks stated, prudence avoids a mess.

 

[Ligito]

That he continues to say it is illegal.
Illegal, only if not legally registered.

 

[rumblebee1967]

telero-- the first time you speak in this thread that I can find is a statement that supressors are illegal in
oregon. No exceptions noted; paper work or not. After being called on it a number of times you then qualify your statement with an unless you have paper work. for one who continues to require exact wording you seem to prefer that in others and not yourself. Bottom line in supressors can be legal to own in Oregon apparently if you have paper work. Bottom bottom line is why the heck would a range officer even ask to see paper work if the range does not have rules against it. He should stick to his job, not play wanna be ATF cop.

 

[emike]

I have a question...

Can I take a silencer (with proper papers) to Washington State and shoot? If I lived in Washington can I take my stuff to Oregon and shoot there?

Thanks in advance for your insights...

Also where can I go to get a legit answer?

 

[stmcelroy]

Supressors and AOW's can be transported to any state they are legal in with no extra paperwork needed.

All other require prior ATF approval.

 

[emike]

Thanks @stmcelroy

Where can I read up on these sort of issues, was thinking about reaching out to Oregon Firearms Federation any recommendations?

Best,
M

 

[Ranb]

Read this; http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

The ATF website has lots of info.

Ranb