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Necessary things to carry other than the Weapon (CCW)?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by GUN1PDX, Dec 25, 2008.

  1. GUN1PDX

    GUN1PDX Portland Metro Member

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    When I was trained with the OC, we were told that we would be responsible for the prisoner or suspect after he/she was sprayed, i.e. water, etc. Does that hold true for a gun? I mean I carry handcuffs ( as a civilian), so that if I do draw, but don't shoot, I can detain the subject. What do you guys think?
     
  2. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    If you are not shooting, you are running.

    No handcuffs needed.
     
  3. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    If your weapon is drawn..it well better be because it was time to shoot... Just my:twocents: worth...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2008
  4. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    In the armed endorsement training for Security/Bail Recovery/PI's, the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission advises us (on page 15) to handcuff the suspect until police arrive, and be prepared to render first aid to stop bleeding and treat for shock.

    The training material can be downloaded here.
     
  5. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    PS This above pertains to situations after you shoot; depending on your training whether you want to tackle ordering someone to the ground and arresting/handcuffing them at gunpoint without shooting them is a decision you may make under the circumstances.
     
  6. GUN1PDX

    GUN1PDX Portland Metro Member

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    Trust me I understand that if that gun is coming out, its going bang! However, your lawyer might advise you to stick around and provide first aid, to make a stronger case in Civil Court. If the threat has been eliminated or surrenders, I am to take control of the situation: 1) neutralize the threat--this may include handcuffing the subject 2) Advise authorities 3) Provide care if needed. Just my 2 cents.

    Thanks for the replies, gets the nogg'n going.
     
  7. Mark-60

    Mark-60 Someplace near Hillsboro Active Member

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    I hope for your sake that is an exaggeration. If you draw, and the bad guy stops whatever it was he/she was doing to make you draw in the first place, and put their hands up, flee, or otherwise cease their poor behavior, you're gonna shoot 'em?

    This is not a good plan, and will not end well.

    -Mark.
     
  8. GUN1PDX

    GUN1PDX Portland Metro Member

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    Well, the gun should only come out if my life or someone else's life is threatened. If he is going to stop, he may stop when I advise him with my taser. Then I can escalate the force continium.
     
  9. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    VERY good info. Thanks for the link to the PDF. :thumbup:

    I don't think it's necessarily true that "if the gun comes out" it means you are "going to shoot". Sometimes the gun needs to be drawn to make the bad guy take notice and choose whether or not it's in his (or her) best interest to alter their behavior or suffer the consequences.

    This thread is a good discussion on what to do IF they do alter their behavior and then decide to remain there for the authorities peacefully (doubtful) and what you should have with you to properly detain them until said authorities arrive on scene.
     
  10. BUZO71

    BUZO71 Emerald Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Sounds like a bad idea for a civilian to be handcuffing and/or rendering first aid- especially by themselves. Tell me, in what situation where a person has intended lethal force and been stopped somehow, why you would approach that person after he/she had threatened that use of lethal force? And, what gives anyone the equipment/training to do so?

    Dan, you can probably attest, have you EVER taught civilians to approach someone they have just used/menaced someone with lethal force to handcuff or provide first aid? I think it would be good to look at the advantages and disadvantages.

    disadvantage-
    1.you have to get within hand to hand distance with a suspect. 2. You have to go hands on with a guy that was just deemed needed lethal force used against. 3. If you are busy dealing with the guy being handcuffed or first aid rendered, you can't watch for other suspects.

    Advantages- uhhhhh... (offer a fill in the blank answer here)

    I'm sure there are other great reasons to cover with lethal force and have police respond to the scene... but its just too late for me to think about them right now.
     
  11. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    The answer to the question is... a minimum of 15 feet, a steady aim, and a full magazine. :paranoid:
     
  12. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    I think they are speaking as off-duty Police Officers, or armed security.

    Civilians have no business "arresting" felons.
     
  13. BUZO71

    BUZO71 Emerald Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Well, even off duty or security.... there's no reason to approach a suspect by yourself. Wait for cover.... Of course that's the rule and there are always exceptions but the same rules apply.
     
  14. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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    That's what I'm thinking. However well-intentioned, merely carrying handcuffs or like equipment speaks to a state of mind that includes other than pure self-defense.
     
  15. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    Agreed.

    Off duty officers have more responsibility than citizens. I can see where they may want to carry Tazers and cuffs.


    For those not sworn to uphold LAW...........We should be running if we are not shooting.
     
  16. aflineman

    aflineman Both South of Eugene and East of Portland. Active Member

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    My memory could be way off, but I thought forcible detention was frowned upon. It might even be considered kidnapping? I am going off of an old memory here, so anyone feel free to correct me if I am way off base.

    Edit to add: about all I carry extra is a good light, a mag., my wallet and permit.
     
  17. wavo

    wavo Portland Member

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    Two fists of power
    Two Elbows of justice
    Two knees of destruction
    Two legs of honor.

    That's what I carry when I'm not carrying. :D
     
  18. Aristotle13

    Aristotle13 Kent, WA Member

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    Other things I carry while I CCW are...

    - Permit for said CCW
    - Extra magazine
    (I can foresee this being a topic of discussion: I carry a spare magazine because not only for the obvious bring enough ammo, but because magazines fail at the wrong moment, also because in clearing a jam, it's always fastest ripping out the magazine in the gun and using a fresh magazine.)

    And of course, phone, wallet and keys.

    I'm not very tactical so I leave the surefire, first aid kit and benchmade in my car.
     
  19. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

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    If you are going to draw your gun then evaluate their response please keep your insurance paid up because you are going to get killed. That is almost as bad as yelling stop that, i'v got a gun.
     
  20. aflineman

    aflineman Both South of Eugene and East of Portland. Active Member

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    I can honestly say, there is nothing tactical about why I carry my surefire. I learned the everyday uses of a flashlight as a Lineman/Electrician. Now that my tool belt is hung-up, I still carry a flaslight. Just to handy of an item not to.